Actscelerate.com

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2160 **3/20/06 11:36 pm**

I have never "flung dung" at anyone. I have only pointed out FACTS. But in your book, if they're "successful" in your eyes, they are somehow above criticism. So we will just have to agree to disagree on this. Why do you care about who I like or don't like? What does it matter?

Get over it, 12thdude. I am.
_________________
"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006

12thman

Member Posts: 49 **3/20/06 11:39 pm**

just like thought... you can't name a name. how sad. you don't consider anyone successful... nobody is successful to you. what a sad gloomy world.

TheoloJohn

TheoloJohn · Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2160 **3/20/06 11:45 pm**

12thman

Member Posts: 49 **3/20/06 11:48 pm**

still no names...

name someone you believe to be a success.

not even one?

for not knowing any big shots... you sure have taken some shots at some of the biggest.

can't you offer a thumbs up for a single living known successful minister? just one?

by the way... you didn't know any of the dead heroes of the faith any better than you know the big shots of today!

TheoloJohn

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2160 **3/20/06 11:52 pm**

12thman

Member Posts: 49 **3/20/06 11:59 pm**

I'm dismayed at your inability to name a minister that you deem a success. It seems the only dead people deserve a two thumbs up rating. Living people can be successful, can't they

Theo, it's not like your endorsement will keep you out of heaven if they turn out to be a Charlatan!!! It's okay for you to be wrong. As you know, I am repeatedly wrong.

Just one name that we will recognize.... please. I just have to believe that you can compliment someone... to place the word success with a living persons name who is a minister... you can do it, can't you?.

TheoloJohn

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2160 **3/21/06 12:02 am**

One "word" for you, 12thman....be not dismayed.

But no, I honestly can't think of anyone whom I would say "Yep, they got my unconditional endorsement, this guy's the real deal!" As if my endorsement mattered one bit anyway. I do find your badgering mildly irritating.

Jesus said MANY would say to Him, "Lord, lord, look what we've done for you" on that Day. (Matt. 7:21-23)
_________________
"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006

12thman

Member Posts: 49 **3/21/06 12:09 am**

not one...

can you hear the words coming out of your mouth.

there is not one living minister that you can publicly accolade with the phrase "successful."

Dear God in heaven... all sarcasm aside... the view from where you are standing is sad. I genuinely feel bad for you. No joke, I could go on for hours about the successful ministers I know, many of whom you probably know. they aren't perfect, and sometimes their motives weave in and out of bounds, but then, they aren't Jesus.

TheoloJohn

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2160 **3/21/06 12:09 am**

This will be my very last post to you, ever, okay?

Because I cannot possibly know these big-shot preachers well enough to have confidence in them, I simply cannot give any of them my "thumbs up" as you say. I'm sure there are some out there who are on target, but God will have to make the final determination of who's for real and who's not when all is said and done.

For the time being, God tells us to beware of false prophets, "by their fruit you shall know them," and that even those who apparently are wildly successful will be told "I never knew you" on Judgment Day (Matt. 7:21-23)

What is their life like? Do they really live the way a Christian should, or are they a hypocrite? Only a close relationship with someone can truly bring such facts into the light of day.

And yes, I apply this standard to my own life, too. I would be quite the hypocrite if I didn't.
_________________
"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006

12thman

Member Posts: 49 **3/21/06 12:12 am**

last quote ever... that will take a lot of self-control. i am very persistent. come on, I'm not asking for an unconditional endorsement - it can be conditional. if they turn out to rob old ladies of their retirement checks later on, I'll let you off the hook.

just one name that you consider successful!

notwanghere

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1794 **3/21/06 12:14 am**

12thman

Member Posts: 49 **3/21/06 12:17 am**

come on notwang... aren't you slightly interested after all of this to hear one positive sentence focused by Theo on one specific minister? you've been following this too. aren't you just dying to hear something positive about one man of God? won't it taste like manna after a week in the desert with no food?

Land of Middle Girth

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1169 **3/21/06 2:36 am**

Porpoise Driven Neptune

Hey, 12th man ...

Acts-celerater Posts: 969 **3/21/06 4:49 am**

If you are successful then that is great. But I am sure you will agree that none of us should be content with our achievements so far. We should be looking for greater success in the future.

Try reading, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" I think you need it.

12thman

Re: Hey, 12th man ...

Member Posts: 49 **3/21/06 10:33 am**

Phil Hoover

So what about places like....

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15383 **3/21/06 12:49 pm**

The Brooklyn Tabernacle (running THOUSANDS every week)

Times Square Church (ditto)

Church on the Way (ditto)

Denver First Church of the Nazarene (seen phenomenal growth in the last 18 years under two different pastors).

What do you say about congregations like that?

Phil Hoover
Chicago
_________________
There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.

www.philhoover-chicago.blogspot.com

TheoloJohn

Re: So what about places like....

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2160 **3/21/06 2:37 pm**

stp89

Is this thread still going? LOL

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1248 **3/21/06 3:27 pm**

The original question was "are you mature enough to handle another person's success?" (or something similar to that Laughing

)

The reason we're having such a difficult time discussing this is because "success" is such a relative term. It means different things to different people. Let me just answer these questions to what I believe the original poster was getting at- I may be wrong but I'll attempt it anyway.

Can I handle a person having more attendance than me on Sunday mornings? I sure hope so or else I'm in a world of trouble!

Can I handle the fact that someone is on TV and I'm not even on AM radio? Yes, more power to them- I only hope that they would present a clear and truthful message of the Gospel. I don't envy those who have to raise the funds to be on TV- it is an enormous cost.

Can I handle the fact that some have more people attending their church than I have in my town's population? You betcha- In all honesty I don't know that I could handle all that responsibility- God gives us what we can handle. If I had 5,000 attending my church I might make a big mess of it because I may not be seasoned or mature enough to shepherd that many. I don't envy anyone with that much accountability and responsibility- to whom much is given, much will be required.

Can I handle the fact that some fly in a private jet and have a nicer home than me? Absolutely- I have no idea what their ministry needs are and they may need a private plane to get them where they are going. If I had the opportunity to live in a bigger, nicer home...I certainly wouldn't refuse the opportunity. And furthermore, I have no idea how much this person has given to the gospel of Christ financially. They may be taking in lots of money, but they may be tremendous givers also!

I don't have time to be jealous- I've got to make sure that I'm not burying my talent or two in the sand while others are putting theirs to work. I think we would all do well to adopt the philosophy of the great Apostle:

Philippians 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice

I know there are probably some hucksters out there and wolves in sheep's clothing. But I trust God to sort it all out in the end. I don't have enough discernment or time to try and figure out everybody's motives for doing what they do. I only know that we will all give an account to God one Day. I want to hear "well done thou good and faithful servant" (it wouldn't bother me to hear it in the King's English either Razz

). For me, that's when I will consider myself a success. Until then, I'm just an unworthy servant doing my duty (Luke 17:10)

12thman

stp89

Member Posts: 49 **3/22/06 11:58 am**

exactly... dead on... u the man. I wish you had started the thread.

I don't consider you an unworthy servant... neither does the King!

Galatians 4: 3So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. 4But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.

You are a son... not by works, but because of His love, mercy and declaration!

I hope NIV doesn't offend one who likes the Kings English!