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Secular Music in Church. WWJD?
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Post myinquringmind
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life. Friendly Face
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3/7/07 8:05 am


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Post Telecaster
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


Again, I'm glad your mind is in inquiring because you seem to have no ability to reason and understand. None of us has said people will go to hell for listening to secular music. What we have stood up against is the replacement of worship to God with secular music for the sake of attracting crowds. You've never seen any of us say that all secular music is of the devil, so really, are you just someone that makes chronic errors while reading or are you trying to defain our argument and character? If Phil wins, good for him. I hope whatever genre of music he enters in to, he will allow his Christian light to lead and shine, and I trust that if a church invites him to come and lead praise and worship on a particular Sunday, he would lead praise and worship, and not sing about a heart throb of the fleshly kind.
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3/7/07 9:06 am


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Post Charlie Metz
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


You are like the bad left wing media...when you quote or paraphrase me please get it right.

I didn't say anyone was going to hell for listening to secular music. I said that preachers/pastors/church leaders today that substitute worship and praise music with secular music is doing a disservice to the people of God. When we are to be offering up worship and praise to our God, they are offering up garbage. Aerosmith was mentioned here, do you think they offer up praise to God? Does their music lift up Jesus? Do you not think that if you play that in church that people will think it is ok to have a lifestyle like they do because the church ordained their music during time of worship?

Once again, when trying to paraphrase someone, please get it right. You look foolish when people who have read all the thread do know what we have said...
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"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
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3/7/07 9:12 am


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Post String Bender55
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


Bottom line is this, Phil is doing something in the world that may help him get to the point where he can further his career as a Christian singer. Actually he has done a great job. Most of the songs he has performed had hidden/veiled themes of love for God. You could interpret them that way anyhow.

Let the man do what he can. I am sure the producers of American Idol have guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music.

He is doing great and I hope he makes it to the final 12.
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3/7/07 9:47 am


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Post Reality
COGCharlie wrote:
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


You are like the bad left wing media...when you quote or paraphrase me please get it right.

I didn't say anyone was going to hell for listening to secular music. I said that preachers/pastors/church leaders today that substitute worship and praise music with secular music is doing a disservice to the people of God. When we are to be offering up worship and praise to our God, they are offering up garbage. Aerosmith was mentioned here, do you think they offer up praise to God? Does their music lift up Jesus? Do you not think that if you play that in church that people will think it is ok to have a lifestyle like they do because the church ordained their music during time of worship?

Once again, when trying to paraphrase someone, please get it right. You look foolish when people who have read all the thread do know what we have said...


I use what ever song is best going to help me communicate the theme for the day. Christian music, secular music, it doesn't matter to me. Their are plenty of so called christian artists I don't want the people in my church to pattern after. For that matter their are plenty of ministers I don't want our people to model their lives after. It's music, not the lifestyle they might lead. People are pretty smart. I think they get the picture.
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3/7/07 9:55 am


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Post myinquringmind
COGCharlie
Quote:
What I would like to know is if you would invite a group into your church (I cant believe this by the way) who sang songs that were awful, not just neutral to God, but were in opposition to what scripture teaches.

Quote:
If these "artists" stand for these things, then how can you promote them in your worship service?

Quote:
We, the church, must be different from the world. We must be a holy people to point the way to Christ


Do you think Phil should never lead worship? I would not have any problem with it but with some of your posts, I think you might.

Sorry if I read into some of your (and others) posts about secular music sending you to hell. Just a question though. Why do you not allow your kids to listen to it if there is nothing wrong with it outside of praise and worship.

Telecaster
Quote:
If Phil wins, good for him. I hope whatever genre of music he enters in to, he will allow his Christian light to lead and shine, and I trust that if a church invites him to come and lead praise and worship on a particular Sunday, he would lead praise and worship, and not sing about a heart throb of the fleshly kind.

So what you are saying is it is okay to sing a secular artist outside of church as long as during worship whatever you sing was wrote by a christian artist.
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3/7/07 10:09 am


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Post Charlie Metz
Quote:
Do you think Phil should never lead worship? I would not have any problem with it but with some of your posts, I think you might.


I happen to know someone who knows Phil very well that attended Lee with him. I don't know Phil. He says he is a strong christian. So, would I let Phil lead worship? Yes. He is a christian. Once again, you guys, for some reason, keep missing the point. PLEASE READ THIS SLOWLY SO YOU UNDERSTAND IT THIS TIME...

I would not use Aerosmith music in my worship service because of the lifestyle they lead and promote. This has nothing to do with Phil. Phil, from my understanding and what I hear from other people, is trying to impact culture with Christianity. He is not letting the worldly lifestyle and culture impact the church. I know nothing about Phil so I cant really comment in any more detail on it. I hope you get it this time.

Quote:
Sorry if I read into some of your (and others) posts about secular music sending you to hell. Just a question though. Why do you not allow your kids to listen to it if there is nothing wrong with it outside of praise and worship.


Not sure I understand your question here. I don't think I mentioned my kids in this thread did I? But, if I did, I would have said they don't listen to secular music. My kids love christian music. There is christian music in every style of genre imaginable with lyrics that are praising God. I personally don't like grunge, rap, southern gospel and all of that, but some people do. So, they listen to what genre floats their boat.

If you look at my previous posts, I have a problem with replacing time of worship to God with music that is not praising or uplifting to God.

Quote:
So what you are saying is it is okay to sing a secular artist outside of church as long as during worship whatever you sing was wrote by a christian artist.


Thick heads here. What we are saying is that you should not bring worldly secular world praising music into worship.
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
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3/7/07 11:02 am


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Post myinquringmind
String Bender55 wrote:
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


Bottom line is this, Phil is doing something in the world that may help him get to the point where he can further his career as a Christian singer. Actually he has done a great job. Most of the songs he has performed had hidden/veiled themes of love for God. You could interpret them that way anyhow.

Let the man do what he can. I am sure the producers of American Idol have guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music.

He is doing great and I hope he makes it to the final 12.


"I am sure the producers of American Idol have a guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music."

That is absolutly absurd. Chris S. sang a song DC Talk had on one of their albums and if I remember right "Shackles" was performed last year on American Idol.

I have nothing against Phil. I do not know him personally. From what I have read and heard about him I would not have a problem with him leading worship at my church.
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3/7/07 11:12 am


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Post I do know him personally... Phil Hoover
myinquringmind wrote:
[ I do not know him personally. From what I have read and heard about him I would not have a problem with him leading worship at my church.


Phil is a wonderful, godly and gracious man. He loves the Lord Jesus, and serves him with great passion.

What more needs to be said about HIM?
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3/7/07 11:19 am


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Post Comparison Charlie Metz
How did we get to a point that we are comparing Phil Stacey with Aerosmith and Timberlake? I dont hear Phil singing about sex, drugs, etc. Is he?
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"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14
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3/7/07 1:46 pm


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Post String Bender55
myinquringmind wrote:
String Bender55 wrote:
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


Bottom line is this, Phil is doing something in the world that may help him get to the point where he can further his career as a Christian singer. Actually he has done a great job. Most of the songs he has performed had hidden/veiled themes of love for God. You could interpret them that way anyhow.

Let the man do what he can. I am sure the producers of American Idol have guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music.

He is doing great and I hope he makes it to the final 12.


"I am sure the producers of American Idol have a guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music."

That is absolutly absurd. Chris S. sang a song DC Talk had on one of their albums and if I remember right "Shackles" was performed last year on American Idol.

I have nothing against Phil. I do not know him personally. From what I have read and heard about him I would not have a problem with him leading worship at my church.


So I suppose you are a MUSICAL EXPERT. What I am saying is this.

He is trying to win and to do so is to do secular songs. So what. Does that disqualify him from leading worship. Or does he have to only sing CoG approved songs. If that is what you think then for you I am sorry.

It takes all kinds of music to reach people. RAP, Rock Bluegrass, Country. ALL of it. So for me as long as it lifts up the name of Jesus then it is acceptable.

My old band did Amazing Grace to the tune of "House of the rising sun". Was that wrong? NO! Because the Chords were the BACKGROUND and made the words Fresh and new.

You can also sing Amazing Grace to the Gilligan's Island theme song and to Nirvana songs too. What does that prove? Nothing. It is doing what the American Idol producers keep saying all along. MAKE THE SONG YOUR OWN.

If I did Amazing Grace the traditional way (Don't get the wrong Idea, I love the old way with all of my heart!) or to House of the rising sun, which would be fresh and new with a splatter of old (Lyrics) which would you remember? Good or Bad you would remember my version.

This is but one step in Phil's journey. If Phil wins are you going to excommunicate him fro being worldly? If so maybe he should join the Assembly of God. they are more up to date and less judgmental. They are open to new ideas about how to bring people in.

If you stay the same you get pushed out of the way but new and fresh ways of doing things.

At least that is my opinion and I am entitled to that much even of you do not believe I am.
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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3/7/07 1:50 pm


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Post Telecaster
myinquringmind wrote:
Telecaster
Quote:
If Phil wins, good for him. I hope whatever genre of music he enters in to, he will allow his Christian light to lead and shine, and I trust that if a church invites him to come and lead praise and worship on a particular Sunday, he would lead praise and worship, and not sing about a heart throb of the fleshly kind.

So what you are saying is it is okay to sing a secular artist outside of church as long as during worship whatever you sing was wrote by a christian artist.


The definition of secular is "without God." Therefore anything that doesn't specifically talk about God is considered secular. Such songs as Twinkle, Twinkle little star and Happy Birthday can be considered secular. Will singing them send you to hell? Of course not. Will I tell my kids, who I have none by the way (another incorrect implication by you again) that they can't listen to these songs? Of course not. Secular music is meant for entertainment, plain and simple. It's about selling records, getting endorsements, and so forth. I've got no problem being entertained outside of church, nor would I have for my unborn kids. That's why we watch TV and go to movies and post on websites such as this. It's entertainment and fellowship. On the same note, I do not listen to secular music that goes against the Word of God nor do I allow it in my house, nor will my unborn kids listen to it in my presence or in my house.

However, when we come into the house of God, entertainment shouldn't be on our mind. It should be about praising and worshipping God, receiving from Him, and growing near to Him, as well as, fellowship with the saints as Hebrews instructs us. Now if we bring in songs clearly meant for entertainment and use them as replacements for songs and time that is to be magnifying God, then we're wrong. Plain and simple. I don't know how many more times I need to type that.

As for the christian artist stigma, that can go both ways. One of the most anointed singers in Christian music is Michael English. Everyone knows his testimony. So if I ascribe to your misunderstood attempt to reveal an error in theology, then I should have quit singing songs that were extremely anointed such as In Christ Alone, or Mary Did You Know (I know Mark Lowery wrote it), and others when he fell. Of course that's pathetic. If the song is praise and worship unto God, then that's what it is. I've listend to Evanescence's music and have heard Bring Me To Life and enjoy the song. I can definitely see religious implications in it, but to replace a worship song with that song is wrong. The artist didn't mean for the song to be used in that fashion. By their own admission, they are not Christian artists and do not desire to be seen as such. By their music video for the song, it's obvious that God is not who they are directing the song to. They may be doing that to sell videos, but again, why would I want to utilize and advertise a song by individuals who clearly have no desire to be linked with God when there are anointed Christian songwriters following the scriptures and worshipping God with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs?


Last edited by Telecaster on 3/7/07 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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3/7/07 2:03 pm


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Post Telecaster
String Bender55 wrote:
myinquringmind wrote:
String Bender55 wrote:
myinquringmind wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


Bottom line is this, Phil is doing something in the world that may help him get to the point where he can further his career as a Christian singer. Actually he has done a great job. Most of the songs he has performed had hidden/veiled themes of love for God. You could interpret them that way anyhow.

Let the man do what he can. I am sure the producers of American Idol have guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music.

He is doing great and I hope he makes it to the final 12.


"I am sure the producers of American Idol have a guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music."

That is absolutly absurd. Chris S. sang a song DC Talk had on one of their albums and if I remember right "Shackles" was performed last year on American Idol.

I have nothing against Phil. I do not know him personally. From what I have read and heard about him I would not have a problem with him leading worship at my church.


So I suppose you are a MUSICAL EXPERT. What I am saying is this.

He is trying to win and to do so is to do secular songs. So what. Does that disqualify him from leading worship. Or does he have to only sing CoG approved songs. If that is what you think then for you I am sorry.

It takes all kinds of music to reach people. RAP, Rock Bluegrass, Country. ALL of it. So for me as long as it lifts up the name of Jesus then it is acceptable.

My old band did Amazing Grace to the tune of "House of the rising sun". Was that wrong? NO! Because the Chords were the BACKGROUND and made the words Fresh and new.

You can also sing Amazing Grace to the Gilligan's Island theme song and to Nirvana songs too. What does that prove? Nothing. It is doing what the American Idol producers keep saying all along. MAKE THE SONG YOUR OWN.

If I did Amazing Grace the traditional way (Don't get the wrong Idea, I love the old way with all of my heart!) or to House of the rising sun, which would be fresh and new with a splatter of old (Lyrics) which would you remember? Good or Bad you would remember my version.

This is but one step in Phil's journey. If Phil wins are you going to excommunicate him fro being worldly? If so maybe he should join the Assembly of God. they are more up to date and less judgmental. They are open to new ideas about how to bring people in.

If you stay the same you get pushed out of the way but new and fresh ways of doing things.

At least that is my opinion and I am entitled to that much even of you do not believe I am.


Super slinkys must be working String. Great post!
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3/7/07 2:05 pm


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Post String Bender55
Telecaster wrote:
String Bender55 wrote:
slinky's wrote:
String Bender55 wrote:
slinky's wrote:
I have noticed on the board in another thread about (American Idol and Phil Stacey)people saying Phil will be "bring a big testimony to the world if he makes it that far." Don't get me wrong I think Phil is doing a great job and went to Lee which is great. According to you fellas on here what kind of an example is he. He is singing secular songs in a secular contest. His testimony (according to Telecaster, COGCharlie, and Raphael) will only lead people to hell because he has sung secular songs and people only relate to the original artists that sang the song first. I dont understand why you three havent got onto the other thread and critisized the ones voting for Phil because of this. I mean any secular music (according to you guys, except Raphael, according to him anything that doesnt sing scriptures) is of the devil and has no place in a christians life.


Bottom line is this, Phil is doing something in the world that may help him get to the point where he can further his career as a Christian singer. Actually he has done a great job. Most of the songs he has performed had hidden/veiled themes of love for God. You could interpret them that way anyhow.

Let the man do what he can. I am sure the producers of American Idol have guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music.

He is doing great and I hope he makes it to the final 12.


"I am sure the producers of American Idol have a guideline that will not allow Phil to sing Christian music."

That is absolutly absurd. Chris S. sang a song DC Talk had on one of their albums and if I remember right "Shackles" was performed last year on American Idol.

I have nothing against Phil. I do not know him personally. From what I have read and heard about him I would not have a problem with him leading worship at my church.


So I suppose you are a MUSICAL EXPERT. What I am saying is this.

He is trying to win and to do so is to do secular songs. So what. Does that disqualify him from leading worship. Or does he have to only sing CoG approved songs. If that is what you think then for you I am sorry.

It takes all kinds of music to reach people. RAP, Rock Bluegrass, Country. ALL of it. So for me as long as it lifts up the name of Jesus then it is acceptable.

My old band did Amazing Grace to the tune of "House of the rising sun". Was that wrong? NO! Because the Chords were the BACKGROUND and made the words Fresh and new.

You can also sing Amazing Grace to the Gilligan's Island theme song and to Nirvana songs too. What does that prove? Nothing. It is doing what the American Idol producers keep saying all along. MAKE THE SONG YOUR OWN.

If I did Amazing Grace the traditional way (Don't get the wrong Idea, I love the old way with all of my heart!) or to House of the rising sun, which would be fresh and new with a splatter of old (Lyrics) which would you remember? Good or Bad you would remember my version.

This is but one step in Phil's journey. If Phil wins are you going to excommunicate him fro being worldly? If so maybe he should join the Assembly of God. they are more up to date and less judgmental. They are open to new ideas about how to bring people in.

If you stay the same you get pushed out of the way but new and fresh ways of doing things.

At least that is my opinion and I am entitled to that much even of you do not believe I am.


Super Slinky's must be working String. Great post!


The Slinky's always work great,and I hardly ever break one anymore! Wink
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3/7/07 2:14 pm


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Post myinquringmind
String Bender55........

I don't know if you are talking to me or not. Have you not read all the post that I have wrote. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PHIL. I THINK HE IS DOING A GREAT JOB ON AI AND IS REPRESENTING THE COG WELL. What I do have a problem with is those on here(not you) that to me have double standards. From what they have wrote it is alright for a Christian artist to sing secular songs, just not at church. They can sing any song they want as long as while in church they sing songs wrote by Christian Artist. Another poster wrote something along the lines that for every secular artist there is a christian artist that sounds the same. Why do they hold Kevin and the others accountable to this but not Phil. I understand that Phil is in a contest and the others are leading worship. The comment was made that singing a secular song promotes the secular artist. Do I believe Phil is promoting LeAnn Rimes' lifestyle when he sang her song. NO. Do I believe he agrees with every other song she ever sang. NO. I was only using Phil as an example because I dont understand how it goes one way and not the other. Sorry you couldnt see that.
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3/7/07 2:18 pm


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Post myinquringmind
Telecaster I never once said you had children. I don't even know who you are. What I was refering to was COGCharlie's post (page 3, 15th post down)

Quote:
...not just in music at church but at home as well. I didn't want to open this new can of worms but you just did...my family doesnt listen to secular music at home. We dont watch TV shows that are offensive. We actually limit the amount of time that our TV is on. I monitor the places my children go, I even censor what they read and do. I engage with their friends and their friends families. I live a life of example...


Michael Engish is by far one of my favorite artist secular or christian. I just dont understand why you believe that other songs couldnt be used in church. Nobody on here ever even mentioned using any songs that went against the Word of God as you have implied.
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3/7/07 2:33 pm


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Post Music is music. Groovy Dee
It's all modes, scales, melody, harmony and rhythm. To me it doesn't matter who is playing it...or singing it. What matters truly is how that individuals lifestyle represents the character of Christ throughout their daily activities.

The song, "I can only imagine" (like many songs in Christian music today) is a great "Christian' song. However, I played it with a band one time, in a biker/nascar kind of place (the place made me nervous actually) and the drunks were slow dancing, bumping and..... to that song.

I guess what I am saying is (and I say this as a musician that has played for years in church and "other" places) we place far too much emphasis on music and not nearly enough on living the Christian life. (only with God's help can this be done)
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4/30/07 5:53 pm


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Post Dr Jaideep
String Bender, I have a question for you.

What according to you are the salient features of 'secular music' as you put it and the salient features of 'church music' as a genre ?
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10/5/07 1:50 pm


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Post Re: deep end churchmem
[quote=Kevin [/quote]

Here's the deal. We disagree very strongly on methodology, that's cool w/ me. You couldn't sit in my services. Honestly, it bores me to tears to sit in more traditional services.

Here's the difference. I have not ever slammed on traditional style. Never have I said, "It's so lame, outdated, irrelevant, etc. I will NEVER reach our culture or emerging generation. God is embarrassed by the fact that we won't change. God's focus is on doing anything short of sin to reach the lost and we dishonor God with those methods."
Never have I or anyone that I've read said that.

If we did...you guys would excommunicate us. We may even get banned for slamming what's supposedly "sacred". So, if we don't, why do you? Why do you guys insist on calling my methods an abomination, unholy, a stench to God? Unless you've been to my church and seen how it's done...you have NO IDEA.

You guys tell us to "be careful" w/ our methods. I guess you think our message is lame & watered down because we lead the service off with a great song that most people are listening to anyway. You have no clue. How dare you judge our hearts based on something like that.

We question methods that our fathers used to figure out what is best to reach our world. You seem to question us w/ some prophetic attitude of judgment. That's wrong. I have been in emergent/contemporary/seeker world for awhile now. I have never seen anything from these churches except honor and dignity when talking about more traditional churches. I see nothing but the opposite from traditional churches when they talk about us.

I don't know if it's fear. I don't know what it is. But it's really irritating, it's really old, it's really empty, and it makes alot of you guys seem judgemental & pious. Which I know you really aren't.[/quote]

I would just like to say that you should not be so quick to forget that had it not been for the continual delivery of this "Original" Gospel, then you might not know Christ today. The problem is we are so quick to think that just because you have alot of traditional thinkers that aren't getting results out there, then we should come up with this post modern theology to make room for all the people who don't feel comfortable in church. Jesus preached to thousands and didn't have to bring in special side shows and acts to try and entertain people. It wasn't that much different back then in the sense that people still had a worldly system to contend with.

With Love in Christ

Preach Christ and Christ Crucified!!
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Posts: 72
10/11/07 2:45 am


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Post String Bender55
vintagefaith77 wrote:
our youth did a drama about depression to the Johnny Cash song "Hurt"...it was one of the most moving things I have ever seen. I think if it's done for a reason and not just to be "cool" or "relevent", then it could be ok.
Hurt is a cover song. That is a song COVERED by Johnny Cash.

The original artists is Nine Inch Nails!
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2/20/08 11:38 am


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