 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Re: comparison *contains words not appropriate for kids* |
Layperson |
| COGCharlie wrote: | What I would like to know is if you would invite a group into your church (I cant believe this by the way) who sang songs that were awful, not just neutral to God, but were in opposition to what scripture teaches. Would it be right to tell people to do the things that they promote in their music? Let's take a look at a few of "artists" that you cited that you have heard played in "churches" somewhere in the country and See...WWJD?
Black Eyed Peas
What you gon' do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump.
What you gon' do with all that a**?
All that a** inside them jeans?
I'ma make, make, make, make you scream
Make you scream, make you scream.
What you gon' do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get you drunk,
Get you love drunk off this hump.
What you gon' do wit all that breast?
All that breast inside that shirt?
I'ma make, make, make, make you work
Make you work, work, make you work.
Sugarland
No more, what a bore, had enough, I'm out the door
Headed for a breakdown, had it with the small town
Gonna call Lisa, gonna call Carla Sue
Now we're gonna let it roll, gonna let it rip
Gonna get us a nice room down on the strip
Not that we'll need it, there won't be any sleepin' tonight
So, now if anyone asks, not that they would
We'll be down in Mississippi and up to no good
Keith Urban
Don't you know
Nobody drinks alone
Every demon, every ghost
From your past
And every memory you've held back
Follows you home
Nobody drinks alone
You remember whiskey on your daddy's breath
So you always stick to wine
And you scared your little brother half to death
You just kept it all inside
You can hear your mama cryin'
Only now she cries for you, and
All American Rejects
I'll keep you my dirty little secret
(Dirty little secret)
Don't tell anyone or you'll be just another regret
(Just another regret, hope that you can keep it)
My dirty little secret
Who has to know
When we live such fragile lives
It's the best way we survive
I go around a time or two
Just to waste my time with you
Tell me all that you've thrown away
Find out games you don't wanna play
You are the only one that needs to know
Justin Timberlake
Go rock with me, you deserve the best
Take a few shots
Let it burn in your chest
We could ride down
Pumpin N.E.R.D. in the deck
Funny how a few words turn into sex
Play this free, joint called "brain"
Ma, take a hint
Make me suerve in the lane
Switchfoot
Sex is easier than love,
It's easier than love,
It's easier to fake and smile and brag
It's easier to leave,
It's easier to lie,
It's harder to face ourselves at night
Feeling alone,
What have we done?
What is the monster we've become?
Where is my soul? (Where is my?)
Where is my soul?
Evanescence
Long lost words whisper slowly to me
Still can't find what keeps me here
When all this time I've been so hollow inside
I know you're still there
Watching me, wanting me
I can feel you pull me down
Fearing you, loving you
I won't let you pull me down
Hunting you, I can smell you - alive
Your heart pounding in my head
Watching me, wanting me
I can feel you pull me down
Saving me, raping me, watching me
Watching me, wanting me
I can feel you pull me down
Fearing you... loving you
I won't let you pull me down
Aerosmith
Way too many examples from these guys...sorry for the explicit lyrics...
From San Antone to Marrakesh
Yeah when the night comes
Everybody gotta have flesh
You got me all soakin' wet
Flesh... the only thing that's worth the sweat
From the day that Eve did Adam
Down to Romeo and Juliet
Everybody gotta have...
Anyway, I wanted to give you an example of some of the stuff that these guys push. When we play their music in God's house then you are telling people it is ok that these people dont live up to God's standard. It is ok to go out and sin and sing about it.
To be honest, I have to wonder why you would let these kinds of people to be examples for christians. I would not attend your church and I am scared of churches like yours when it comes to my kids. I do not want them getting mixed messages. I tell them that they have to live a holy life to please God. You have to strive to holiness...not compromise with the world to try and win friends to convince them you are a cool christian... This makes me sad... |
To play songs with lyrics like this in church is an abomination.
And I also feel that it would be sinful to use the same tune (notes, chords, etc.) even if you change the words, because of the connotation.
It seems like the apostate church is on the horizon. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/1/07 2:29 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| Re: Telecaster wrote: |
Pastor Gary |
| vintagefaith77 wrote: | | yeah, how about "Jesus on the mainline, tell 'em what you want....call him up, call him up, tell him what you want." |
"Mainiine" doesn't have the same connotation in 2007 as it did in 1947! 
That song sounds like a drug deal now.  
_________________
I reserve the right to own my words and thoughts without edits. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3530
3/1/07 3:23 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: comparison *contains words not appropriate for kids* |
KevinLloyd |
| Layperson wrote: | | COGCharlie wrote: | What I would like to know is if you would invite a group into your church (I cant believe this by the way) who sang songs that were awful, not just neutral to God, but were in opposition to what scripture teaches. Would it be right to tell people to do the things that they promote in their music? Let's take a look at a few of "artists" that you cited that you have heard played in "churches" somewhere in the country and See...WWJD?
Black Eyed Peas
What you gon' do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get you drunk,
Get you love drunk off my hump.
What you gon' do with all that a**?
All that a** inside them jeans?
I'ma make, make, make, make you scream
Make you scream, make you scream.
What you gon' do with all that junk?
All that junk inside that trunk?
I'ma get, get, get, get you drunk,
Get you love drunk off this hump.
What you gon' do wit all that breast?
All that breast inside that shirt?
I'ma make, make, make, make you work
Make you work, work, make you work.
Sugarland
No more, what a bore, had enough, I'm out the door
Headed for a breakdown, had it with the small town
Gonna call Lisa, gonna call Carla Sue
Now we're gonna let it roll, gonna let it rip
Gonna get us a nice room down on the strip
Not that we'll need it, there won't be any sleepin' tonight
So, now if anyone asks, not that they would
We'll be down in Mississippi and up to no good
Keith Urban
Don't you know
Nobody drinks alone
Every demon, every ghost
From your past
And every memory you've held back
Follows you home
Nobody drinks alone
You remember whiskey on your daddy's breath
So you always stick to wine
And you scared your little brother half to death
You just kept it all inside
You can hear your mama cryin'
Only now she cries for you, and
All American Rejects
I'll keep you my dirty little secret
(Dirty little secret)
Don't tell anyone or you'll be just another regret
(Just another regret, hope that you can keep it)
My dirty little secret
Who has to know
When we live such fragile lives
It's the best way we survive
I go around a time or two
Just to waste my time with you
Tell me all that you've thrown away
Find out games you don't wanna play
You are the only one that needs to know
Justin Timberlake
Go rock with me, you deserve the best
Take a few shots
Let it burn in your chest
We could ride down
Pumpin N.E.R.D. in the deck
Funny how a few words turn into sex
Play this free, joint called "brain"
Ma, take a hint
Make me suerve in the lane
Switchfoot
Sex is easier than love,
It's easier than love,
It's easier to fake and smile and brag
It's easier to leave,
It's easier to lie,
It's harder to face ourselves at night
Feeling alone,
What have we done?
What is the monster we've become?
Where is my soul? (Where is my?)
Where is my soul?
Evanescence
Long lost words whisper slowly to me
Still can't find what keeps me here
When all this time I've been so hollow inside
I know you're still there
Watching me, wanting me
I can feel you pull me down
Fearing you, loving you
I won't let you pull me down
Hunting you, I can smell you - alive
Your heart pounding in my head
Watching me, wanting me
I can feel you pull me down
Saving me, raping me, watching me
Watching me, wanting me
I can feel you pull me down
Fearing you... loving you
I won't let you pull me down
Aerosmith
Way too many examples from these guys...sorry for the explicit lyrics...
From San Antone to Marrakesh
Yeah when the night comes
Everybody gotta have flesh
You got me all soakin' wet
Flesh... the only thing that's worth the sweat
From the day that Eve did Adam
Down to Romeo and Juliet
Everybody gotta have...
Anyway, I wanted to give you an example of some of the stuff that these guys push. When we play their music in God's house then you are telling people it is ok that these people dont live up to God's standard. It is ok to go out and sin and sing about it.
To be honest, I have to wonder why you would let these kinds of people to be examples for christians. I would not attend your church and I am scared of churches like yours when it comes to my kids. I do not want them getting mixed messages. I tell them that they have to live a holy life to please God. You have to strive to holiness...not compromise with the world to try and win friends to convince them you are a cool christian... This makes me sad... |
To play songs with lyrics like this in church is an abomination.
And I also feel that it would be sinful to use the same tune (notes, chords, etc.) even if you change the words, because of the connotation.
It seems like the apostate church is on the horizon. |
This has gone off the deep end.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/1/07 4:22 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| deep end |
Charlie Metz |
Kevin,
I dont think you would use the songs I cited the above lyrics to (at least I hope not). However, I set up the straw man to make a point. If these "artists" stand for these things, then how can you promote them in your worship service? How can you tell them it is ok to listen, act, or idolize them? That is what you do when you place their music at the most important part of a christian's time during the week. The collective worship experience is to lift up God. That is to be a sacred time. Not one the is muddied with mixed messages. You may preach a message that "punches them in the throat" but they may not be listening to your message...but they did connect with that lifestyle that the music reminded them of.
I am sure you do a great job of engaging people. I am concerned with some methods used in churches today when they employ worldly methods to get someone to listen. It is almost like saying, my teenager is going to have sex anyway, why not give them a condom to start the abstinence conversation. Would it not be the same? Or, maybe your 17yr old is going to drink, so you give him a 6 pack to engage him in the conversation about why it is important to abstain from alcohol.
My mantra on this whole thread is separation. We, the church, must be different from the world. We must be a holy people to point the way to Christ. I dont think listening to Aerosmith or Pink Floyd in church allows us the cleanest purest way of pointing to Christ. I think singing about our faith or songs praising God does.
Your brother Christ,
Charlie
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 706
3/1/07 6:22 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
myinquringmind |
I have determined that some of you on here will always disagree with anyone who does things different than you. Does it really matter what method is used to bring someone the Word of God. It isn't about what you think is the correct way to do things. All that matters is a generation is hearing the Word and developing a relationship with Jesus. Not every one will be touched singing "I exault Thee" with no music. Why is it that we feel we need to bash someones ministry because they do things different. They are ministering to a differnt age and demographic group. What will work in a big city church won't always work in a rural church. The personalities and people are different and want ministered to in a different way. All that matters is God is glorified and people are turning from unrightessness to rightessness. It is not up to us to determine how they should do it.
Alot of the problems with the church today is that we scream at kids that they can't do this and they can't do that. Church isnt about a big list of do's and don'ts that we make it. Instead of telling kids they are going to Hell because they listen to secular music we should be teaching them so that they are able to disern on their own what to listen to. If the only reason they dont listen to a certain artist is because they have been told they will go to Hell for listening to it, have you really accompished anything. Do you expect them to call with every life decison they have to make to find out or would it be more beneficial to them to be able to make they own decisions. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 100
3/1/07 7:44 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
Political_Pastor |
| COGCharlie wrote: | Kevin,
I dont think you would use the songs I cited the above lyrics to (at least I hope not). However, I set up the straw man to make a point. If these "artists" stand for these things, then how can you promote them in your worship service? How can you tell them it is ok to listen, act, or idolize them? That is what you do when you place their music at the most important part of a christian's time during the week. The collective worship experience is to lift up God. That is to be a sacred time. Not one the is muddied with mixed messages. You may preach a message that "punches them in the throat" but they may not be listening to your message...but they did connect with that lifestyle that the music reminded them of.
I am sure you do a great job of engaging people. I am concerned with some methods used in churches today when they employ worldly methods to get someone to listen. It is almost like saying, my teenager is going to have sex anyway, why not give them a condom to start the abstinence conversation. Would it not be the same? Or, maybe your 17yr old is going to drink, so you give him a 6 pack to engage him in the conversation about why it is important to abstain from alcohol.
My mantra on this whole thread is separation. We, the church, must be different from the world. We must be a holy people to point the way to Christ. I dont think listening to Aerosmith or Pink Floyd in church allows us the cleanest purest way of pointing to Christ. I think singing about our faith or songs praising God does.
Your brother Christ,
Charlie |
How about great songs like "Mary did you Know." A Christmas song, made famous by Michael English......uh oh, better not sing that one, because the whole separation issue. You know he cheated on his wife, that's not good. People might be so in love with his song, that they go home and Google "Mary did you Know" and they realize that Michael English made that song famous, then they Google him, and found out he cheated on his wife. They are so in love with the song, and the good message, that they start cheating on their own spouse, man what an unfortunate turn of events. Don't sing that song, or people will start cheating on their spouses. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 246
3/1/07 8:04 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
Layperson |
[quote="Political_Pastor"] | COGCharlie wrote: |
How about great songs like "Mary did you Know." A Christmas song, made famous by Michael English......uh oh, better not sing that one, because the whole separation issue. You know he cheated on his wife, that's not good. People might be so in love with his song, that they go home and Google "Mary did you Know" and they realize that Michael English made that song famous, then they Google him, and found out he cheated on his wife. They are so in love with the song, and the good message, that they start cheating on their own spouse, man what an unfortunate turn of events. Don't sing that song, or people will start cheating on their spouses. |
Not a good analogy! God may use an unholy person to write a holy song, but God will never use anyone, holy or unholy to write vulgar songs. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/1/07 8:21 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Secular Music in Church. WWJD? |
Listener2 |
SO, why be so closed minded and pious. GOD created music, it was Satan that perverted it and used it for bad things. We take it back, clean it up and play it loud and proud![/quote]
So we should let Satan pervert music again (Or has he ever stopped his perversion)???
I think the issue here is this: Why do you meet as a church? for corporate worship? to be entertained? to show off your talent? to demonstrate the degree of your rebellion? to show the sinner that he can find the same hollow emptiness in God's house that he came in with? to receive training to be a better Kingdom worker? to seek God in case Jesus might just come again or call you to Himself?
Will the annointing of the Spirit be upon that which does not glorify God?Is your performance bathed by the Spirit?
PLEASE don't feed me from the dumpster just because I happen to be in the alley!! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 291
3/1/07 8:46 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
KevinLloyd |
| COGCharlie wrote: | Kevin,
I dont think you would use the songs I cited the above lyrics to (at least I hope not). However, I set up the straw man to make a point. If these "artists" stand for these things, then how can you promote them in your worship service? How can you tell them it is ok to listen, act, or idolize them? That is what you do when you place their music at the most important part of a christian's time during the week. The collective worship experience is to lift up God. That is to be a sacred time. Not one the is muddied with mixed messages. You may preach a message that "punches them in the throat" but they may not be listening to your message...but they did connect with that lifestyle that the music reminded them of.
I am sure you do a great job of engaging people. I am concerned with some methods used in churches today when they employ worldly methods to get someone to listen. It is almost like saying, my teenager is going to have sex anyway, why not give them a condom to start the abstinence conversation. Would it not be the same? Or, maybe your 17yr old is going to drink, so you give him a 6 pack to engage him in the conversation about why it is important to abstain from alcohol.
My mantra on this whole thread is separation. We, the church, must be different from the world. We must be a holy people to point the way to Christ. I dont think listening to Aerosmith or Pink Floyd in church allows us the cleanest purest way of pointing to Christ. I think singing about our faith or songs praising God does.
Your brother Christ,
Charlie |
Here's the deal. We disagree very strongly on methodology, that's cool w/ me. You couldn't sit in my services. Honestly, it bores me to tears to sit in more traditional services.
Here's the difference. I have not ever slammed on traditional style. Never have I said, "It's so lame, outdated, irrelevant, etc. I will NEVER reach our culture or emerging generation. God is embarrassed by the fact that we won't change. God's focus is on doing anything short of sin to reach the lost and we dishonor God with those methods." Never have I or anyone that I've read said that.
If we did...you guys would excommunicate us. We may even get banned for slamming what's supposedly "sacred". So, if we don't, why do you? Why do you guys insist on calling my methods an abomination, unholy, a stench to God? Unless you've been to my church and seen how it's done...you have NO IDEA.
You guys tell us to "be careful" w/ our methods. I guess you think our message is lame & watered down because we lead the service off with a great song that most people are listening to anyway. You have no clue. How dare you judge our hearts based on something like that.
We question methods that our fathers used to figure out what is best to reach our world. You seem to question us w/ some prophetic attitude of judgment. That's wrong. I have been in emergent/contemporary/seeker world for awhile now. I have never seen anything from these churches except honor and dignity when talking about more traditional churches. I see nothing but the opposite from traditional churches when they talk about us.
I don't know if it's fear. I don't know what it is. But it's really irritating, it's really old, it's really empty, and it makes alot of you guys seem judgemental & pious. Which I know you really aren't.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/1/07 9:38 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
Layperson |
[quote="KevinLloyd
How dare you judge our hearts based on something like that.
I don't know if it's fear. I don't know what it is. But it's really irritating, it's really old, it's really empty, and it makes alot of you guys seem judgemental & pious. Which I know you really aren't.[/quote]
I think I am being judgemental and there is nothing wrong in judging if you have the facts....I think in this case you judge yourself...I don't know beans about "Black Eyed Peas", Sugarland, and others...never heard one of them that I know of, but you listed them as some bands you had done/seen done... now, based on some of the songs they do as listed by COGCharlie, brother it ain't right to have these characters perform in church! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/1/07 10:17 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
KevinLloyd |
I think I am being judgemental and there is nothing wrong in judging if you have the facts....I think in this case you judge yourself...I don't know beans about "Black Eyed Peas", Sugarland, and others...never heard one of them that I know of, but you listed them as some bands you had done/seen done... now, based on some of the songs they do as listed by | Quote: | | COGCharlie, brother it ain't right to have these characters perform in church! |
So then, based on the fact that none of the people that I associate w/ would ever attend a traditional church because they find it lame, irrelevant, etc...I can judge it? I mean, those are facts, they are real people telling me that. Does that mean you guys want me to throw the same judgement ya'll way? Cause you see us using that music in church as being, how did you say it, "ain't right"? Well, I think it "ain't right" that some churches don't change, refuse to embrace new things or questions of tradition. I think it "just ain't right" or honoring to God that people who can't really sing are allowed to sing specials at some churches.
Is that what you want? Do you want us judging you guys that way for things that you don't see a problem with?
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/1/07 10:24 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Charlie Metz |
| Quote: | | Does it really matter what method is used to bring someone the Word of God |
Do the ends justify the means? I made some references to real life situations. Is it possible to bring someone to Christ through a sinful event? Forget the music topic for a second, you bring up a great question above in the quote. Does the end justify any means?
| Quote: | | SO, why be so closed minded and pious. GOD created music, it was Satan that perverted it and used it for bad things. We take it back, clean it up and play it loud and proud![/So we should let Satan pervert music again (Or has he ever stopped his perversion)??? |
Devil made me do it? I think people, corrupt humans, need to take responsibliity for their actions. Don't blame the devil...he is the temptor only. We ultimately make the decision. You always have a choice...to sin or not to sin. So, can playing a nasty fornication tempting song or drug reference song, or satanic song from Rob Zombie be pure? Come on... I know my three references here are a little extreme, but please dont say all music is from God. I guess in its simplest form ALL things are created of God...so then all things must be pure...then Satan himself is ok as long as he doesnt pervert himself. Silly argument...
| Quote: | | God is embarrassed by the fact that we won't change |
I may have missed where this is in scripture. I am not being sarcastic...if it is there please point me to it.
| Quote: | | We may even get banned for slamming what's supposedly "sacred". |
I didnt say the traditional church service is sacred....far from it. I said that the worship experience is sacred... a privilege that we have as creatures created by God...so much so that if we dont do it the rocks will cry out.
| Quote: | | You guys tell us to "be careful" w/ our methods. I guess you think our message is lame & watered down because we lead the service off with a great song that most people are listening to anyway. You have no clue. |
Be careful with using WORLDLY things. I think any method you can use to reach people, outside of bring the worldly influence into church, is great. I dont know your message. I didnt slam your message. I said that secular music doesnt have a place in a worship service...thats all. I have no clue? Not sure I agree with that. You say, it is something people are doing anyway, that is not a very strong position. So, if my 16 yr old son is going to have pre-marital sex, should I let him go on doing it turning a blind eye saying that he is going to anyway? No, I try to steer him in the right direction with love and discipline. Oh yea, discipline, something that is not popular in today's churches much today. That is scriptural by the way. Do emergent churches utilize any kind of church discipline? (real question because I dont know).
| Quote: | | How dare you judge our hearts based on something like that |
I am not judging your heart. I can tell through your words that you have an authentic love for people...lost and found. I appreciate your dedication to the service of God's kingdom and I think we need more pastors like you. I just question some of the ways you do things...thats all. Is that not appropriate?
| Quote: | | But it's really irritating, it's really old, it's really empty, and it makes alot of you guys seem judgemental & pious. Which I know you really aren't. |
Sorry you are irritated. I dont judge you, once again, because I can see you have a passion and heart for people. However, I view this forum as a place to air ideas and bounce them off of all people. I think bringing the influences of hte world is wrong. I have the freedom on this forum to say that. Just because I disagree with your methods doesnt mean you have to think I am judging you, I am not. I am not looking at motive, just the action itself.
In Christ,
Charlie
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 706
3/1/07 10:26 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Charlie Metz |
| Quote: | | So then, based on the fact that none of the people that I associate w/ would ever attend a traditional church because they find it lame, irrelevant, etc...I can judge it? I mean, those are facts, they are real people telling me that. Does that mean you guys want me to throw the same judgement ya'll way? Cause you see us using that music in church as being, how did you say it, "ain't right"? Well, I think it "ain't right" that some churches don't change, refuse to embrace new things or questions of tradition. I think it "just ain't right" or honoring to God that people who can't really sing are allowed to sing specials at some churches. |
Once again, methodology. You can judge all you want. Show me the scripture that says traditional service is not appropriate. I CAN show you in scripture where it says to separate yourself from the world and worldly influences. I can show you where it warns of the pervasiveness of the ills of culture. I can show you scripture about sanctification and church discipline.
I do find it interesting that you will not allow someone to sing to God as an offering to Him just because they may not be able to be judged as "a good singer" Now, dont get me wrong, from timeto time I wonder why someone goes up there and does that. However, I would rather listen to someone authentically worshipping God in their bad voice, than someone going through the motions with a good voice. To me, this stinks a little bit like the folks who judged the poor widow be cause of her penny vs. the others with their large offerings. Be careful...
_________________
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matt. 7:13-14 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 706
3/1/07 10:35 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| One More Post on This... |
KevinLloyd |
Ok. I'm not going to agree on anything w/ you guys about this. Bottom line...I'm using secular music in church. If you don't, fine, sorry you're missing out.
Here's why I see no problem w/ it.
Jesus told 3 stories about things that were lost. Sheep, Coin, Son. Throughout those 3 stories the thing that I keep seeing is that God/Jesus main focus is on finding lost things/people...to the exclusion of those that are found. I think that that shepherd, that woman, and that father would have used any means necessary to find what was lost.
Guys, sorry you don't like it, but I think that in today's culture God wants us to do ANYTHING short of sin to find what's lost. And I really don't think he cares what all of us who are found think about it.
PS -- Secular Music Rocks!
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/1/07 10:37 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
KevinLloyd |
| COGCharlie wrote: | | Quote: | | So then, based on the fact that none of the people that I associate w/ would ever attend a traditional church because they find it lame, irrelevant, etc...I can judge it? I mean, those are facts, they are real people telling me that. Does that mean you guys want me to throw the same judgement ya'll way? Cause you see us using that music in church as being, how did you say it, "ain't right"? Well, I think it "ain't right" that some churches don't change, refuse to embrace new things or questions of tradition. I think it "just ain't right" or honoring to God that people who can't really sing are allowed to sing specials at some churches. |
Once again, methodology. You can judge all you want. Show me the scripture that says traditional service is not appropriate. I CAN show you in scripture where it says to separate yourself from the world and worldly influences. I can show you where it warns of the pervasiveness of the ills of culture. I can show you scripture about sanctification and church discipline.
I do find it interesting that you will not allow someone to sing to God as an offering to Him just because they may not be able to be judged as "a good singer" Now, dont get me wrong, from timeto time I wonder why someone goes up there and does that. However, I would rather listen to someone authentically worshipping God in their bad voice, than someone going through the motions with a good voice. To me, this stinks a little bit like the folks who judged the poor widow be cause of her penny vs. the others with their large offerings. Be careful... |
Please stop telling me to be careful. I'm not going to be careful. Careful is what got the church into the lame state that it's in.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/1/07 10:39 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
Layperson |
| KevinLloyd wrote: | I think I am being judgemental and there is nothing wrong in judging if you have the facts....I think in this case you judge yourself...I don't know beans about "Black Eyed Peas", Sugarland, and others...never heard one of them that I know of, but you listed them as some bands you had done/seen done... now, based on some of the songs they do as listed by | Quote: | | COGCharlie, brother it ain't right to have these characters perform in church! |
So then, based on the fact that none of the people that I associate w/ would ever attend a traditional church because they find it lame, irrelevant, etc...I can judge it? I mean, those are facts, they are real people telling me that. Does that mean you guys want me to throw the same judgement ya'll way? Cause you see us using that music in church as being, how did you say it, "ain't right"? Well, I think it "ain't right" that some churches don't change, refuse to embrace new things or questions
of tradition. I think it "just ain't right" or honoring to God that people who can't really sing are allowed to sing specials at some churches.
Is that what you want? Do you want us judging you guys that way for things that you don't see a problem with? |
By"ain't right" I don't mean boring, I mean sinful. I admit that some of the traditional churches may be boring, but can you list anything they do in worship services that is sinful...or makes a mockery of God. No, I don't know what is in your heart, and I don't know if COGCharlie is right on these lyrics (although I don't believe he would have posted them if he wasn't), but if he is, this is filth and has no place in the church. Now, perhaps they don't use these lyrics when they come to your church, but if this is their lifestyle they have no business performing in church unless they are repentant. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/1/07 10:47 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: deep end |
Layperson |
| KevinLloyd wrote: | I think I am being judgemental and there is nothing wrong in judging if you have the facts....I think in this case you judge yourself...I don't know beans about "Black Eyed Peas", Sugarland, and others...never heard one of them that I know of, but you listed them as some bands you had done/seen done... now, based on some of the songs they do as listed by | Quote: | | COGCharlie, brother it ain't right to have these characters perform in church! |
So then, based on the fact that none of the people that I associate w/ would ever attend a traditional church because they find it lame, irrelevant, etc...I can judge it? I mean, those are facts, they are real people telling me that. Does that mean you guys want me to throw the same judgement ya'll way? Cause you see us using that music in church as being, how did you say it, "ain't right"? Well, I think it "ain't right" that some churches don't change, refuse to embrace new things or questions
of tradition. I think it "just ain't right" or honoring to God that people who can't really sing are allowed to sing specials at some churches.
Is that what you want? Do you want us judging you guys that way for things that you don't see a problem with? |
By"ain't right" I don't mean boring, I mean sinful. I admit that some of the traditional churches may be boring, but can you list anything they do in worship services that is sinful...or makes a mockery of God. No, I don't know what is in your heart, and I don't know if COGCharlie is right on these lyrics (although I don't believe he would have posted them if he wasn't), but if he is, this is filth and has no place in the church. Now, perhaps they don't use these lyrics when they come to your church, but if this is their lifestyle they have no business performing in church unless they are repentant. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/1/07 10:47 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| As I read this.... |
wvwatchman |
I am listening to David Wilkerson's son Gary preach a message entitled " The cross centered Church". It is awesome, no surprise since it comes out of Times Square Church. There is no way a God who demands Holiness from His Church, (called out ones) that playing the trash spoken here, in God's house, is acceptable. You will never get me to believe that it is. Not even if Bill Hybels &other flavor of the month businessman err, "pastor" says it is or has a conference about it. I don't need the book of the month, I've got the book of the ages. And that is where I get my guidance from.The throne room, not the counselling room. In these last days, the backslidden American Church is becoming more and more irrelevelent, no matter how relevent they try to be. Instead of being "relevent" why don't you seek the face of Jesus and be "heaven-sent". There is a huge difference.
"Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned. Strangers have devoured his strength, and he knoweth it not: yea gray hairs are here and there upon him, yet he knoweth it not."
Hosea 7:8-9
Yes this sounds like American Christianity, mixing itself among sinners, oh sorry, "unchurched",and become a half-baked cake, good for nothing. The power has been devoured and they know it not.We don't raise the dead, we don't heal the sick, we don't pray through, why would we? We can just find a small group to help us feel okay in our sin oh sorry, our emotional hangups. Or perhaps we can find a conference to show us how to do Christianity right.
Whatever happened to the Cross, have we gotten so familiar with Jesus that we no longer need to carry our cross daily? How can we sing that junk and then turn around and Bless God with the same mouth? We can't speak blessings and cursings from the same mouth. And it would behoove us to seek God while He can be found. Surely, the days are few, and He is coming for a spotless Bride.
Oh by the way, I don't watch Heroes, American Idolatry or allow my kids to listen to secular music. I've been delivered from that pit and am called to make sure my kids don't make the same sinful mistakes I made.
" And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light."
Romans 13:11-12
[/i]
_________________
Amos 8:11-12
John 12:32 |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
3/1/07 10:48 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Good Post Watchman! |
Layperson |
| Well said. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/1/07 10:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| My first impression would be to |
c6thplayer1 |
| think that you would only play Pink Floyd instrumentals in church just to show off what you can do with your instrument. Of course before I would make that assessment , your ministry habits throughout the week would have to be taken into consideration. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/1/07 10:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
