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bradfreeman

The "men from James", "the rest of the Jews", Barnabas and Peter all agree...and are all WRONG

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/4/16 6:52 am**

“Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?" Gal 2:11-14

Don't get too "carried away" with what your favorite speaker or author says.

Even the "men from James", "the rest of the Jews", Barnabas and the Apostle Peter can be wrong and fall from "the truth Gospel" back into compelling people to keep the Law.

Even a pretty-good-sized crowd of respected church leaders won't make the wrong message "the truth of the Gospel" - Gentiles don't have to live like Jews and the Law doesn't get to call any man unclean.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
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Nature Boy Florida

Re: The "men from James", "the rest of the Jews", Barnabas and Peter all agree...and are all WRONG

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16646 **7/4/16 3:10 pm**

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: The "men from James", "the rest of the Jews", Barnabas and Peter all agree...and are all WRONG

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **7/4/16 5:37 pm**

maqqebet

But, they were open-minded...

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1771 **7/4/16 10:29 pm**

From the Jerusalem Council - Acts 15

bradfreeman

Re: The "men from James", "the rest of the Jews", Barnabas and Peter all agree...and are all WRONG

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/5/16 5:30 am**

spartanfan

According to your Scriptural analysis....*

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3638 **7/5/16 6:00 am**

*if you keep on reading the passage: "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts 15:29)

So then using your comparison of Peter and the Boys to our leaders in Cleveland - when they finally "get it right" then headquarters made their own list of don'ts (they bound things on Earth) and dos (they loosed things on Earth) - and their don'ts and dos became the instructions to live by.

When you take out a part of the Scripture that seems to support your misled basic premise and leave out the part that blows it all to smitherines then you have violated the overall intention of the passage.

Matthew 16:18-19, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

So in God's order - the leaders of the church have every right to make the rules (with the full authority and backing of Heaven) and the rest are obligated to follow their rules. You left that out.

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Why the men from James?

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **7/5/16 7:50 am**

I have seen others blame the men from James. I don't get it. Why would you or anyone else blame them? There is no reason to think that the men from James knew Peter had stopped eating with the Gentiles. They may not have known the people in the church. They may have just known who showed up right then and there when they ate. It could have been their first time there.

When you show up at a guest at a church, do you see those who attend, or those who do not attend? When you show up as a guest for dinner, do you know who the host did not invite, but should have?

Peter did not eat with the Gentiles with them present, but we don't know that the guests had any knowledge of this. Peter may have just assumed they would have a problem-- these Jewish looking men with their conservative Judaean beards, larger phylacteries and tassles on the ends of their garments.
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bradfreeman

Re: According to your Scriptural analysis....*

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/5/16 8:11 am**

Link

Re: According to your Scriptural analysis....*

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **7/5/16 10:12 pm**

bradfreeman

Re: According to your Scriptural analysis....*

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/6/16 5:25 am**

maqqebet

"binding and loosening"

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1771 **7/6/16 5:53 am**

The Hebraic idiom, "binding and loosening" has everything to do with determining what is permitted and forbidden, clean or unclean, lawful or unlawful and it is evident from the context it is Jesus' intention to extend this authority to Peter first (Matthew 16:19,in context of building His church), and then practically to the church in general (Matthew 18:15-20).

This was a very familiar practice in 1st-century Judaism, and is the principle found in the Jerusalem Council.

The Council examined the issues from Scripture and debated the issue. When James announced his decision he cited prophecy as a basis and announced the Gentiles were to be accepted into the fellowship of believers without placing the "yoke" Peter referred and they were to refrain from idolatrous practices, including abstaining from the contaminated by idols, fornication, strangled meat and meat not drained.

Requiring them to turn their backs on their former life-style was not an easy task because in many ways they were repudiating a life-style that gave them protection from Rome's persecution and jeopardize their livelihood.

"It seemed good" is to expression an opinion, much like the "opinion of the court," to do two things. The "opinion" of the "apostles, elders" (upon which the household of God finds its foundation for the Apostolic Faith, Ephesians 2: 20, with Jesus being the cornerstone), and the "whole church," to first select Paul and Barnabas to inform the Gentile-dominated congregations of the Council's decision.

Second, "it seemed good" or was the "opinion" of the Holy Spirit and to the Council to lay no "greater burden than these essentials" - refrain from idolatry.

A key to the impact of the Council's decision if found in the response of those hearing the opinion:

spartanfan

You don't understand....

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3638 **7/6/16 6:15 am**

you see, Brad knows more and is more spiritual and is more authoritative than the disciples (taught personally by Jesus, present at the transfiguration, given the promise of authority to bind and loose, present at Pentecost and responsible for turning the world upside down through the power of the Holy Spirit). Brad is the ultimate authority and Brad says Peter and the boys "got it all wrong." He and those who agree with him are the only ones who have it all right.

I wish Brad would have stayed with our poor misguided Church of God (tongue in cheek of course) because it would be much more economical and efficient just to have him replace all of the Ordained Bishops and make all of the wise, Scriptural and practical recommendations to the General Assembly. After all, if he knows more than Peter, Paul and the rest of the early Church fathers then he certainly knows more than us Ordained Bishops even though many of us have 4 or 5 decades of prayer and study of the Scriptures behind us.

I wish he were an Ordained Bishop and 30 years old (and male) so I could vote for him as General Overseer because then we could save money by him not needing any assistants or a Council of 18. Pope Brad! That's the answer!

bradfreeman

Re: You don't understand....

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/6/16 8:44 am**

bradfreeman

Re: "binding and loosening"

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/6/16 8:49 am**

maqqebet

What I have, Brad,

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1771 **7/6/16 6:18 pm**

is years of studying the Hebraic background of Matthew's Gospel. What is important in understanding some of the exchanges between Jesus and the Pharisees is knowing the cultural context of those exchanges.

The full context of Jesus' declaration is this: Jesus' giving the Keys to the Kingdom of heaven is to give Peter authority. In this context Peter is given authority through "binding and loosening," a common expression perhaps better understood as "whatever you forbid" and "whatever you permit;" or, whatever you declare lawful and whatever ever you declare unlawful.

This concept is reiterated in Matthew 18:15-20 where the Church sits in judgment of the offender who refuses to be reconciled with the offended and is brought before the church to determine if indeed a sin has been committed and if it is determined it is and the offender still refuses to repent and reconcile, then he is to be excluded from the fellowship, or "let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector" (vv. 17).

To this Jesus adds, "Truly I say to you, what ever you bind [marg. forbid] on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose [marg. permit] on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." (vv. 18).

In Matthew 19:3 we find Pharisees coming to Jesus asking if it was lawful, or permitted, for a man to divorce his wife for any reason. They wanted to know how His interpretation and position regarding the subject. Did He permit divorce? If so, under what conditions.

I agree Jesus indeed came to set free the captive and bind up the broken-hearted, but that does not need a loose or erroneous application of the expression "binding and loosening."
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The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB)

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Re: According to your Scriptural analysis....*

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **7/7/16 4:12 am**

bradfreeman

Re: According to your Scriptural analysis....*

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/7/16 5:07 am**

Link

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **7/8/16 11:42 pm**

I think a more reasonable interpretation in regard Acts 15, instead of seeing it as a case where the Spirit did NOT lead the apostles into all truth as Jesus promised, is to consider the possibility that Brad Freeman may be interpreting the passage a bit wrongly.

Jesus was against teaching people to eat meat offered to idols in Revelation. I Corinthians gives us reasons why it is wrong to eat meat offered to idols. One of the big ones is the issue of conscience. Even so, Paul does not recommend going into an idol's temple and eating. He warns of provoking the LORD to jealousy and of having fellowship with demons. He does work out some of the grey areas. If you buy meat at the market, you don't have to ask questions about whether the meat was offered to idols. If someone offers you meat at a feast without commentary, you can eat it. If he says it was offered to idols, you don't eat it. Someone with a conscience can eat only vegetables (Romans 8.)

This isn't the 'leaven' of legalism. That isn't the issue. Nowhere is having a weak conscience called 'leaven.' And this isn't the type of legalism that has to do with trusting in something other than Christ for salvation. Having conscience issues over food offered to idols is not the leaven of the Pharisees and Saducees that Jesus warned against.

James and the council of Jerusalem addressed the issue of Gentile circumcision and food consistent with what was revealed in Old Testament scripture.
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bradfreeman

Acts-dicted Posts: 9027 **7/9/16 7:14 am**

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Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **7/9/16 11:20 am**

Keeping the law is not leaven. The issue with the Galatians was people seeking to be justified by the law. Judaizers were trying to convince Gentiles that they had to be circumcised to relate to God through the Law. Feeling it is wrong to eat some kind of meat is not the same kind of 'legalism.' It does not attack the core issues of the faith.

The food that God has given man is first 'herbs' and then later meat, but not the blood. We see this in Genesis.
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