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sheepdogandy

Apples and oranges

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7307 **1/18/07 5:28 pm**

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Any previous persecutions cannot compare with what is going to happen during the Trib.
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Yo Dude

Sheepdog...

Acts-dicted Posts: 8625 **1/18/07 5:41 pm**

and that's BEFORE Jesus returns, according to the chapter.

imustdecrease

Pre-Trib, and watching the Eastern Skies!

Friendly Face Posts: 262 **1/18/07 11:37 pm**

Notice that chapters 2 and 3 of the Revelation are addressed to the churches. Jesus is pictured as the candlestick in the midst of the churches. How do you explain that the churches are not mentioned again in the Revelation until chapter 22:16?

Revelation chapter four starts with, "After this." I believe that the church has been raptured, and the church is called to "Come up hither." All the events describing the Great Tribulation take place after this.

Link

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **1/19/07 4:29 am**

I posted a thread on Paul's attack on pre-trib. II Thessalonians shows us that the saints will receive relief when Christ comes back with the holy angels, and the wicked will be punished.

I wish there were another choice on the poll-- at the return of Christ. That is when I see the rapture taking place. I just can't see two second comings of Christ in scripture.

I don't see how pre-wrath fits with Paul's teaching of the rapture occuring at the second coming, when the Lord descends from heaven. I don't see God pouring out His wrath, and the fact that saints are not appointed unto wrath, as a compelling argument for a pre-wrath rapture. God poured out His judgment on Egypt didn't He? Did He pour it out on Israel? No. God is really good at pouring. He can pour wrath right where He wants it to fall. Even if Christians suffer from the effects of it when God pours out His wrath on the earth, that doesn't mean that we are under God's wrath.
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Link

Poimen

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5657 **1/19/07 4:57 am**

Link -- a post trib view is essentially what you propose as another poll option.

Honestly, as long as one is in Christ it matters not when or if there is a rapture apart from the second coming proper. Either way the righteous receive eternal life in the presence of Christ and the wicked are confined to eternal torments in the lake of fire.

But, I do believe the Scripture shows a rapture distinct from the second coming proper. When believers begin to allow these various views to distract us from the purpose and calling of the church or to cause wounded feelings or hurt between us then I resort to my other view -- pan trib.

I figure salvation is primary. The rest will all pan out in the end. Wink

I'll look over your thread and the Thessalonian text(s) you mentioned above. Maybe I can join the dialog.
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Poimen
Bro. Christopher

Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay."

Rafael D Martinez

Pre Trib

Acts-dicted Posts: 7766 **1/19/07 6:26 am**

So pre Trib I won't eat Post Toasties ..
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