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 Does God still heal today? |
FLRon |
This is a serious question. How do you explain to someone who has loved God from age six and is now in their sixties, why they are not receiving their healing? What do you say to them after they have rejected any notion of medical treatment, vowing instead to trust the Lord for healing, and healing hasn’t come and they are now doubting everything they have ever believed?
There is no hidden sin. There is no unforgiveness. This person was raised in a Pentecostal pastor’s home, so anointing the sick and praying for healing is all they know. Still, there is no healing after several months.
I have taught and preached healing for close to five decades. I know all the scriptures. I believe I have a firm grasp on healing faith, yet I am at a loss to explain why God is silent at this time. I can’t bring myself to say “the truth is, not everyone gets healed”.
Thoughts or advice for a hurting soul are welcome.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
3/31/24 3:25 am
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Cojak |
This is a very good point of discussion and contention. In my lifetime in the Church of God, I have not heard it all, but I have heard and seen a lot. I remember very well my nephew a pastor from NYC, visiting our church in Mt. Holly, NC . He had Leukemia. In a revival the Evangelist, a very well known preacher, declared him healed, his statement was "YOU are healed, you can take that to the Doctors for proof if you like!"
He passed away within weeks of that service. I asked the Evangelist to explain that to me, "Jack he is completely healed isn't he?" and went on with a spin. He knew it and I knew it. because that night he declared him physically healed, not declaring a death warrant.
Now to your question, we all know there are LESS major healings in the Church today than in the past. Some say that God now gives the doctors more insight and abilities, etc. I hear more healings from pain and disease that are not life threating than the serious ones.
We all KNOW that FAITH is required, we all know that the cripple at the gate when he was told he was healed, WAS NOT expecting healing but alms. So HIS faith did not cause the healing, but the minister.
This is a VERY DEEP problem, but we must still believe. Looking for more input.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24277
3/31/24 9:15 am
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sheepdogandy |
2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
My best response.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
3/31/24 9:30 am
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| Our bodies remain mortal and perishable in this present age |
Quiet Wyatt |
1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
The “never die” teaching (aka the idea that it is always God’s will to heal us in this life) is a tragic misunderstanding of the Scriptures. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
3/31/24 2:08 pm
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FLRon |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | 2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
My best response. |
Thank you. Yes, I have explained this in detail. The response is always the same: “but I don’t want to have this thing(very visible)with me for the rest of my life”. The longer this continues, the more inclined I am to believe the only thing that will bring peace to this situation is complete submission to God. If that means helping, then great. If not, then that too is great for it must be God’s will and for reasons He is silent about.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
3/31/24 3:19 pm
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FLRon |
| Cojak wrote: | This is a very good point of discussion and contention. In my lifetime in the Church of God, I have not heard it all, but I have heard and seen a lot. I remember very well my nephew a pastor from NYC, visiting our church in Mt. Holly, NC . He had Leukemia. In a revival the Evangelist, a very well known preacher, declared him healed, his statement was "YOU are healed, you can take that to the Doctors for proof if you like!"
He passed away within weeks of that service. I asked the Evangelist to explain that to me, "Jack he is completely healed isn't he?" and went on with a spin. He knew it and I knew it. because that night he declared him physically healed, not declaring a death warrant.
Now to your question, we all know there are LESS major healings in the Church today than in the past. Some say that God now gives the doctors more insight and abilities, etc. I hear more healings from pain and disease that are not life threating than the serious ones.
We all KNOW that FAITH is required, we all know that the cripple at the gate when he was told he was healed, WAS NOT expecting healing but alms. So HIS faith did not cause the healing, but the minister.
This is a VERY DEEP problem, but we must still believe. Looking for more input. |
Yes, not to continue to believe is not an option! I have been on a long journey trying to come to an understanding of why healings are so rare. If I were a Cessationist I could claim that healings and miracles ended with John. Since I am not, I am at a loss to understand the simple faith as a grain of mustard seed. How could any Christian not have at least that much faith? If such a tiny speck of faith could move a mountain, surely it could heal as well. Is it possible that we truly do not understand faith?
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
3/31/24 3:23 pm
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| Re: Our bodies remain mortal and perishable in this present age |
FLRon |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | 1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
The “never die” teaching (aka the idea that it is always God’s will to heal us in this life) is a tragic misunderstanding of the Scriptures. |
Yes, I agree that it is not always God’s will to heal everyone. The cemetery declares the same! What I am confronting is over 50 years of incorrect teaching about faith and healing. Lately I’ve been hearing “I'm starting to question everything I’ve been taught on the matter”. From my point of view, I’m thinking that’s a good starting point. This situation has become one of the greatest challenges of my Christian life.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
3/31/24 3:27 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
Yes, God still heals today, but sometimes He chooses not to. My pastor is 37 years old and God has healed him and saved him from death 3 separate times. He is on dialysis but aside from that, he is doing well and the doctors don't understand.
The Lord kept my husband from death last year and although he is not totally healed, his transplanted kidney did not fail (as the doctors told us it had and that he would have to go back on dialysis). In addition to that, he was in the hospital several times with pneumonia last year and the enemy kept telling me he was going to die, but he kept recovering. They also told me he had cognitive impairment or possibly dementia, but it turned out to be a medication that was causing neurotoxicity. There are several other instances where God has raised him up. God has KEPT him. Isn't that just as miraculous?
The doctors told me last July that the arthritis medicine I've taken for several years was affecting my kidneys badly and took the medication away. I've been in pain pretty much every day since. I hurt my foot on New Year's Day and only recently was finally diagnosed. It hurts to walk or stand. It's discouraging, but I know I can't give up. I simply have to keep trusting God and worshiping Him despite what I'm going through.
I really questioned the Lord when Kathy Isaacs died several years ago. This was before my husband received the kidney transplant. A local pastor died about the same time, a man who loved God and served him faithfully. I kept wondering who was going to believe for a miracle for us when we needed it. I've known Kathy's family all my life. Her whole family are all ministers. Everybody who was anybody in the COG laid hands on her and prayed for healing...but she passed away at the age of 48, having served and worked for the Lord all her life. I really struggled with that, but I finally came to believe that she did what she came here to do. She finished her race, and God took her home.
I don't understand why the Lord doesn't always heal. Healing is provided in the atonement. I believe that with all my heart. But because He hasn't healed everyone, doesn't mean His power is any less. He still heals, and sometimes we just have to leave those answers with Him and continue to trust Him.
I read an account recently re: a woman who was healed around 100 years ago. She quit taking all medication as an act of faith, and the Lord did heal her. I wondered about that, because that is what holiness folks believed back then (no medication.)
I believe the Lord also gives wisdom to doctors and natropaths (people who teach natural means for healing,) Shouldn't we take advantage of the knowledge available today?
I read a book years ago that talked about different types of healing. She said sometimes God heals temporarily. The person recovers but becomes sick again down the road (because we are mortal and live in a sinful world.) She also said that sometimes God heals the circumstances - like with Joni Eareckson Tada. She's been in a wheelchair since she was a teenager. Of course she'd like to be healed, but God has given her peace and she has been a witness for Christ all these years, trusting Him while going through all of this.
FLRon, I'm not sure it's your responsibility to explain it to this individual. Ask God to open their eyes and give them peace. He has the answer and He's the only one who can reveal it to them. Continue to pray and encourage them.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
3/31/24 5:23 pm
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| Re: Our bodies remain mortal and perishable in this present age |
Quiet Wyatt |
| FLRon wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | 1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
The “never die” teaching (aka the idea that it is always God’s will to heal us in this life) is a tragic misunderstanding of the Scriptures. |
Yes, I agree that it is not always God’s will to heal everyone. The cemetery declares the same! What I am confronting is over 50 years of incorrect teaching about faith and healing. Lately I’ve been hearing “I'm starting to question everything I’ve been taught on the matter”. From my point of view, I’m thinking that’s a good starting point. This situation has become one of the greatest challenges of my Christian life. |
If you agree we are not yet immortal and imperishable, but are in fact still subject to corruption and death, what is the issue then? Everybody will die or something until the Lord comes back. Truiy sad but obviously undeniably true.
If they’ve been taught that it is always God’s will to heal, then the simple fact that all of Christ’s original disciples eventually died (even Lazarus after he had been raised from the dead) should settle the question as to whether or not it’s always God’s will to heal. It quite clearly isn’t, and not everyone is always going to be healed in this present age, no matter how great their faith.
We groan within and earnestly await the return of the Lord, when corruption will put on incorruption and mortality shall put on immortality. Until then we will all suffer one way or another, and then die in the hope of resurrection. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
3/31/24 8:19 pm
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FLRon |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Yes, God still heals today, but sometimes He chooses not to. My pastor is 37 years old and God has healed him and saved him from death 3 separate times. He is on dialysis but aside from that, he is doing well and the doctors don't understand.
The Lord kept my husband from death last year and although he is not totally healed, his transplanted kidney did not fail (as the doctors told us it had and that he would have to go back on dialysis). In addition to that, he was in the hospital several times with pneumonia last year and the enemy kept telling me he was going to die, but he kept recovering. They also told me he had cognitive impairment or possibly dementia, but it turned out to be a medication that was causing neurotoxicity. There are several other instances where God has raised him up. God has KEPT him. Isn't that just as miraculous?
The doctors told me last July that the arthritis medicine I've taken for several years was affecting my kidneys badly and took the medication away. I've been in pain pretty much every day since. I hurt my foot on New Year's Day and only recently was finally diagnosed. It hurts to walk or stand. It's discouraging, but I know I can't give up. I simply have to keep trusting God and worshiping Him despite what I'm going through.
I really questioned the Lord when Kathy Isaacs died several years ago. This was before my husband received the kidney transplant. A local pastor died about the same time, a man who loved God and served him faithfully. I kept wondering who was going to believe for a miracle for us when we needed it. I've known Kathy's family all my life. Her whole family are all ministers. Everybody who was anybody in the COG laid hands on her and prayed for healing...but she passed away at the age of 48, having served and worked for the Lord all her life. I really struggled with that, but I finally came to believe that she did what she came here to do. She finished her race, and God took her home.
I don't understand why the Lord doesn't always heal. Healing is provided in the atonement. I believe that with all my heart. But because He hasn't healed everyone, doesn't mean His power is any less. He still heals, and sometimes we just have to leave those answers with Him and continue to trust Him.
I read an account recently re: a woman who was healed around 100 years ago. She quit taking all medication as an act of faith, and the Lord did heal her. I wondered about that, because that is what holiness folks believed back then (no medication.)
I believe the Lord also gives wisdom to doctors and natropaths (people who teach natural means for healing,) Shouldn't we take advantage of the knowledge available today?
I read a book years ago that talked about different types of healing. She said sometimes God heals temporarily. The person recovers but becomes sick again down the road (because we are mortal and live in a sinful world.) She also said that sometimes God heals the circumstances - like with Joni Eareckson Tada. She's been in a wheelchair since she was a teenager. Of course she'd like to be healed, but God has given her peace and she has been a witness for Christ all these years, trusting Him while going through all of this.
FLRon, I'm not sure it's your responsibility to explain it to this individual. Ask God to open their eyes and give them peace. He has the answer and He's the only one who can reveal it to them. Continue to pray and encourage them. |
Thank you for everything you said Carolyn. I am praying that the Lord will give her peace, but I must confess that since this is my wife I’ve been referring to, I must deal with her questions on a regular basis. Just a few hours ago I told her that as a PK she knew the same scriptures that I know and I felt as though there was nothing new I could share with her except to be there to encourage her.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
4/1/24 3:35 am
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| Re: Our bodies remain mortal and perishable in this present age |
FLRon |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | FLRon wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | 1 Cor 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
Romans 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
The “never die” teaching (aka the idea that it is always God’s will to heal us in this life) is a tragic misunderstanding of the Scriptures. |
Yes, I agree that it is not always God’s will to heal everyone. The cemetery declares the same! What I am confronting is over 50 years of incorrect teaching about faith and healing. Lately I’ve been hearing “I'm starting to question everything I’ve been taught on the matter”. From my point of view, I’m thinking that’s a good starting point. This situation has become one of the greatest challenges of my Christian life. |
If you agree we are not yet immortal and imperishable, but are in fact still subject to corruption and death, what is the issue then? Everybody will die or something until the Lord comes back. Truiy sad but obviously undeniably true.
If they’ve been taught that it is always God’s will to heal, then the simple fact that all of Christ’s original disciples eventually died (even Lazarus after he had been raised from the dead) should settle the question as to whether or not it’s always God’s will to heal. It quite clearly isn’t, and not everyone is always going to be healed in this present age, no matter how great their faith.
We groan within and earnestly await the return of the Lord, when corruption will put on incorruption and mortality shall put on immortality. Until then we will all suffer one way or another, and then die in the hope of resurrection. |
The issue is simply this: she has been a committed Christian who has experienced God moving in her life for over 50 years, and in this present situation He is silent. She is well aware that not everyone is healed, however I believe she is struggling to accept that she may be in that number this time. As she shared with me “this is personal”. BTW, this is my wife I’ve been speaking of, so I’m sure you can understand that this is personal for me as well. Thank you for your comments.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
4/1/24 3:42 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
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Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 4/1/24 6:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
4/1/24 6:10 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Very sorry. Keep trusting and praying. God does still heal today, and has not forgotten her. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
4/1/24 6:13 am
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Preacher777 |
Delete
Last edited by Preacher777 on 4/3/24 7:30 am; edited 2 times in total |
Friendly Face
Posts: 434
4/1/24 8:08 am
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sheepdogandy |
Everyone Jesus healed.................. died later on.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
4/1/24 11:58 am
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Preacher777 |
| FlRon and everybody else, I deleted my post in this thread and apologize if what I wrote could hinder anybody's faith as we pray for healings. I don't think it was offensive but would rather err on the side caution. I wish I knew a definitive answer of why some Christians don't always receive their healings but I don't have this information. |
Friendly Face
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4/3/24 7:31 am
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