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Does God Ever Cause Illness

Link · Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **4/6/20 12:39 pm**

I think we need to get our theology right about illness. There is this idea that is really common with WOFers and Bethel, Redding folks that God never causes disease. This idea was common in early Pentecostalism, but it hasn't really entrenched itself as much in that movement, unlike some of these others, because of the tendency of Pentecostals to read the whole Bible.

Ephesians 15:26
And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Notice that the LORD takes credit for putting the diseases upon the Egyptians.

Here is another scripture we must consider.

Exodus 4:11
11 And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord?

The position that God never caused any illness to come on anyone, even the wicked in rebellion against Him, is clearly unbiblical. God often uses agents to do things. He has angels and principalities do things. He uses humans to do things. It's His way to work through others, at least in many cases. If He used an angel to strike the Egyptians with the plague of the firstborn, that doesn't mean that He doesn't get credit.

Kenneth Hagin had this idea that God just 'allowed' bad stuff, as in calamities, to happen, and didn't cause it. He said that some feature of the Hebrew could be interpreted as Hebrew rather than caused, but it was pretty clear he didn't know Hebrew and hadn't really studied to determine if all relevant verses fell into the category he described or whether the argument made sense in context.

Is there any way to say that God 'allowed' the deaths of the Egyptians in this case?

Exodus 15
9 The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them.
10 Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters.

Whether He blew the wind and covered the Egyptian army or we want to take the ridiculous interpretation that He allowed Himself to blow the wind, He did it.

One man said all sickness is of the Devil because of this verse:

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

But this verse doesn't say that the Devil caused all sickness or whether Satan or a satan sometimes causes sickness at God's direction. It says Jesus went around doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil.

As Christians, we need to believe the whole Bible, and accept the portrayals of God as shown in scripture.

I dialogued briefly with someone from Bethel, a man with leg lengthening videos who went to their miracle school who seemed to have some anger issues. He was angry at disease. He held to the position that all sicknesses came from the Devil and not God. I pointed out Paul declaring Elymas blind. He was inclined to believe Paul was wrong about that. The passage says he was full of the Holy Ghost when he said it. I pointed out an angel struck Herod and he died after the incident where the people praised him as if he were a god. He thought the angel might have been at fault, and questioned the authority of scripture. I pointed out that he was putting the theories above the word of God, to the point where he would question the Bible over them.

He also pointed to a verse in II Corinthians about God reconciling the world to himself to support the idea that God does not judge nations until the end of the age. The verse did not say that, and universalists use that verse as well. I've heard the idea of God not judging nations from some folks I know who went to Bethel, Redding.

But these ideas had roots in Pentecostalism. I recall reading some of John G. Lake's ideas about healing. Hagin as in the A/G for a while. Reading the Bible moderates a lot of Pentecostals when it comes to issues like this. There is a lot of teaching out of the Old Testament. Some of the preachers in the larger Pentecostal or Charismatic movement hardly touch the Old Testament unless there are verses about health or healing or some well-known Bible story. Some of these opinions get entrenched in movements because there is little emphasis on the authority of scripture, light treatment of the Bible in the teaching, and people in the movements, particularly their leaders, not reading through scripture. Or maybe they read but somehow cannot perceive what the words on the page say.

God revealed in the Old Testament scriptures is God. And the book of Revelation and other books of the New Testament do not fit well with some of the views of God promoted by some of the preachers in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.
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Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/6/20 12:49 pm**

Good and thorough post. Revelation 2:22 also. And a couple of others I will come back to add later.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/7/20 5:39 am**

Another one - Isaiah 45:7 "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things."

Now, this is one verse and it exists in a proper historical context. It must be properly exegeted and understood. But nevertheless, it is holy Scripture and we must wrestle with it. Folks who would defend WOF theology as "just reading the plain meaning of Scripture" must acknowledge and wrestle with this verse.

This is a good thread. I hope it will get some good interaction.

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5909 **4/7/20 7:51 pm**

There was a thread elsewhere discussing if the corona virus was from God or the devil, and I was amazed at some of the responses. Some were adamant that God does not cause sickness or calamity. I'm not saying God caused the corona virus, but He allowed it, and He can certainly use it for His purpose.
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Da Sheik

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 **4/8/20 8:42 am**

In order to be consistent, the WoF proponents must of necessity believe that God never uses sickness for His glory. If Jesus were to send letters to the churches today as He did in Revelation, I have no doubt He would sharply condemn the teachings of WoF just like He did the teachings of Jezebel, etc.

caseyleejones

Who says this?

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11791 **4/8/20 9:05 am**

Aaron Scott

Da Sheik...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **4/8/20 10:07 am**

caseyleejones

Aaron let me agree with you here....

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11791 **4/8/20 10:14 am**

We get sick because we live in a fallen world

We get sick because the poisons we consume

We get sick because of poor lifestyles

I think some get sick for walking out of the hand and protection of God.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12792 **4/8/20 1:52 pm**

2 Chronicles 7:13-14 (NIV)
â€œWhen I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12792 **4/8/20 2:00 pm**

Ezekiel 14:12 (NIV) The word of the Lord came to me: 13 â€œSon of man, if a country sins against me by being unfaithful and I stretch out my hand against it to cut off its food supply and send famine upon it and kill its people and their animals, 14 even if these three menâ€”Noah, Daniel and Jobâ€”were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign Lord.

15 â€œOr if I send wild beasts through that country and they leave it childless and it becomes desolate so that no one can pass through it because of the beasts, 16 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved, but the land would be desolate.

17 â€œOr if I bring a sword against that country and say, â€˜Let the sword pass throughout the land,â€™ and I kill its people and their animals, 18 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, even if these three men were in it, they could not save their own sons or daughters. They alone would be saved.

19 â€œOr if I send a plague into that land and pour out my wrath on it through bloodshed, killing its people and their animals, 20 as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, even if Noah, Daniel and Job were in it, they could save neither son nor daughter. They would save only themselves by their righteousness.

21 â€œFor this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgmentsâ€”sword and famine and wild beasts and plagueâ€”to kill its men and their animals! 22 Yet there will be some survivorsâ€”sons and daughters who will be brought out of it. They will come to you, and when you see their conduct and their actions, you will be consoled regarding the disaster I have brought on Jerusalemâ€”every disaster I have brought on it.

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5909 **4/8/20 4:24 pm**

God has had me in the book of Jonah lately. The message from God for Ninevah was that He was reaching out to them one last time before He rained judgment on them. I feel that is what is happening here. God is calling our nation (at least) to repentance...bringing us back to the basics and reminding us of what's truly important. God is not making anyone sick but He's allowed it to happen for a purpose. It's a corporate thing, not a personal one.

Interesting side note: I had never paid attention to the fact that God said Ninevah would be overthrown. I though it said, "destroyed."
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Aaron Scott

Notice that God's judgment falls on sinful nations...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **4/9/20 2:44 pm**

That does NOT exclude us, of course. America is a sinful nation. But the question remains: Was there some special deal going on so that EVERYONE that came to Jesus was someone God was WILLING to heal (since He healed them all)?

Is it reasonable to claim that God made those stay home who He was unwilling to heal?

I am not sure how to align these things.

I certainly believe that God punishes nations. But is God WANTING people to be sick? Was Israel some pristine example of goodness in Jesus' day? If so, God sure healed a lot of them.