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Mandatory Support
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Post Darrell Garrett
It was not my intention to bash the AB. I meant what I said, "I have no dog in this hunt." My original post agreeing with what AdamJ said about selling properties has been an issue in Illinois long before Rick Whitter became their AB. I'm not even saying I disagree with closing some of the churches. As far back as the late 90's I had proposed merging several churches around the state and selling some properties. However, I always felt like the money from sold properties should go back into church planting or strengthening the churches we had. That has not been happening for a long time, going back several AB's. So, if it came across that I attacked Rick Whitter, I apologize to him and to the readers. That was not my intention. I will say again, I'm out and have no dog in the hunt, and I will leave it at that. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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3/16/20 1:39 pm


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Post Rick Whitter
I appreciate the apology but it's not necessary; no worries, sir. We're all just trying to navigate these difficult times. Blessings. Hey, DOC
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3/16/20 6:46 pm


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Post uthdude2000
AdamJ wrote:
We have sold tons of Churches, but none in a city named Cleveland. Selling churches is how we support the state office.
My question is Mandatory Support a new norm in the Church of God? Just never seen it to this degree. We are a smaller state and it will take years to recover from this style of leadership. If we do recover.


Mandatory Support, or they pull your license?? Is that what you are getting at?

ALSO, selling churches is 'how COG supports their state offices?"

Is that how certain small states feel or is that from HQ?


Poor leadership from Hill all the way down, if this is true.

**Sir Doyle, you can delete this post if you need to, but with leadership, comes the responsibility of helping those out under his guidance. IF this is the feelings of anyone, he needs to address it.**
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3/17/20 8:08 am


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Post My two cents? roughridercog
I see our church moving quite slowly towards decentralization. Our leadership fights this but in the long run it may be better for our local churches. It will give them a greater sense of ownership of their church leading to taking responsibility. The idea of an AB appointing who he wants to a church against the church's wishes is a practice that needs to die.
It would be quite enlightening to some of our churches to go through a pastoral search.

Take my two cents and buy bubble gum. Laughing
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3/18/20 6:10 am


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Post AdamJ
Roughridercog this is a problem. The Administrative Bishop
knows they hold total power if they wish to. Some shares the power while others love the power. My original question was asking is the normal or average AB requiring mandatory support? It is a destructive mindset in this day and time. I promise a promotion is all I want for him. I don’t want to do anything to harm that. I wish our AB no harm.
Hey, DOC
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3/19/20 10:41 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Please clarify what you mean by ‘mandatory support,’ AdamJ. I know that we have always been encouraged to support the AB when it comes to programs and meetings, but I really can’t imagine getting one’s credentials revoked for missing Campmeeting or not contributing to a program. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/21/20 12:33 pm


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Post sadlytrue77
A few of these overseers are pure politicians. But so are some pastors. I never had the stomach for it. Glad my boy never did get licensed and at this point, with retirement closer every day I am ready to get out of it all.
One friend from a couple states north of mine was pretty disgusted with his prior overseer. He asked how in the world that guy became an overseer. The answer was that the overseer always knew who was on the comitee.
Surprise surprise, the guy that every pastro knew was all show with little substance got promoted one of the bigger state at the next assembly. just the way it works sometimes.
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3/22/20 9:07 pm


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Post Mandatory support? roughridercog
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Please clarify what you mean by ‘mandatory support,’ AdamJ. I know that we have always been encouraged to support the AB when it comes to programs and meetings, but I really can’t imagine getting one’s credentials revoked for missing Campmeeting or not contributing to a program.


Here are some possible meanings.

1. The ministers promote and attend all state meetings. The AB will often take mental roll about who is there and who is not. The pastors make sure percentages and home missions monies are both sent in on time. If serving on a state board, they will be at every meeting.

2. A yes man who will agree with whatever the AB does or has the good sense to remain silent. This can be hard at times. We have great men as ABs. But let's face it. Many of us have experienced lying overseers. It goes on at times and when it does a minister is largely helpless to do anything. The easy road is to nod your head and say yes.

Any other meanings?
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3/24/20 5:50 am


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Post Re: Mandatory support? AdamJ
roughridercog wrote:
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Please clarify what you mean by ‘mandatory support,’ AdamJ. I know that we have always been encouraged to support the AB when it comes to programs and meetings, but I really can’t imagine getting one’s credentials revoked for missing Campmeeting or not contributing to a program.


Here are some possible meanings.

1. The ministers promote and attend all state meetings. The AB will often take mental roll about who is there and who is not. The pastors make sure percentages and home missions monies are both sent in on time. If serving on a state board, they will be at every meeting.

2. A yes man who will agree with whatever the AB does or has the good sense to remain silent. This can be hard at times. We have great men as ABs. But let's face it. Many of us have experienced lying overseers. It goes on at times and when it does a minister is largely helpless to do anything. The easy road is to nod your head and say yes.

Yes these are on point. Other Areas that could be places requiring mandatory support.
3. Use of State funds
4. Use of Properties
5. Firing church Staff and not being willing to explain.
6. Over steps of destroying ministers with many years of faithful service.
7. I am the AB and you can’t question my authority.
8. Pretending to value your opinion all the while you know his is going to do what he wants to do.
These are just examples of possibilities. Not saying all these are current issues.

Things I’ve seen year after year in the Church of God, but never to this degree. Many knows you have to (Go along to get along) or else you are gone. We have no desire to mention the State or AB. Knowing how the system works many of us voted for him in hopes he promotes. Our state needs a healing.
Mandatory support is alive and well. The System is set up to create this style of leadership. I have seen many in leadership that could have lead like this, but rose above that temptation. I’m hoping we see it again soon.

Any other meanings?
Hey, DOC
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3/24/20 9:14 am


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Post cogcia
If you know what is good for you in this case you better not name the state or the name of your AB or you will pay the price. Even most of the State Leaders and District Overseers knows they have no voice. The System is bigger than the state. An old expression use to say “we know were the bodies are buried”. The better statement should be “no one cares where the bodies are buried”.
Just do like everyone else and hold your peace until assembly and pray you get some relief.
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3/25/20 1:02 pm


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Post sadlytrue77
cogcia wrote:
If you know what is good for you in this case you better not name the state or the name of your AB or you will pay the price. Even most of the State Leaders and District Overseers knows they have no voice. The System is bigger than the state. An old expression use to say “we know were the bodies are buried”. The better statement should be “no one cares where the bodies are buried”.
Just do like everyone else and hold your peace until assembly and pray you get some relief.


That's enough to gag a magot right there. Why on earth do we have to sit here and hope for relief. People know who the bad apples are they should call them out.
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3/26/20 2:56 pm


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Post Onthemend
This sad state is exactly what I read about in The Bishop's Blind Spot by Robert L. Wing. That kind of corruption is steeped through the whole system. Addressing one man about his problems wouldn't fix anything. It's a top down problem that needs to change in the culture of the denomination. Newbie
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3/26/20 3:20 pm


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Post AdamJ
Here we go again. More churches and parsonages for sale to support the system and no one is willing or able to say no. I ask a State councilman about a property being for sale and he said he was not aware it was for sale. Can an AB list a property without informing the State Council or does he have the power to do it on his own. Hey, DOC
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4/7/20 9:03 pm


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Post FLRon
AdamJ wrote:
Here we go again. More churches and parsonages for sale to support the system and no one is willing or able to say no. I ask a State councilman about a property being for sale and he said he was not aware it was for sale. Can an AB list a property without informing the State Council or does he have the power to do it on his own.


Interesting question. I know a pastor who tells anyone who questions him "I'm the pastor and I can do anything I want". Wouldn't surprise me then that an AB can as well if such a mindset is ingrained in the denomination,as it apparently is.
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4/9/20 4:27 am


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Post roughridercog
FLRon wrote:
AdamJ wrote:
Here we go again. More churches and parsonages for sale to support the system and no one is willing or able to say no. I ask a State councilman about a property being for sale and he said he was not aware it was for sale. Can an AB list a property without informing the State Council or does he have the power to do it on his own.


Interesting question. I know a pastor who tells anyone who questions him "I'm the pastor and I can do anything I want". Wouldn't surprise me then that an AB can as well if such a mindset is ingrained in the denomination,as it apparently is.



So if there are no checks and balances, what changes are necessary to put a legal checks and balance system in place?
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4/9/20 5:29 am


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Post Rocky J
AdamJ wrote:
Here we go again. More churches and parsonages for sale to support the system and no one is willing or able to say no. I ask a State councilman about a property being for sale and he said he was not aware it was for sale. Can an AB list a property without informing the State Council or does he have the power to do it on his own.



I have been told by more than one state council member that no further propeerties were allowed to be sold. I guess that means nothing as I know that at least two properties are currently on the market to be sold. One pastor who pulled his church from the Church of God under this administration told has stated correctly that the state office was cannibalizing the state. When has enough of the body been eaten that it can no longer survive?
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4/9/20 1:57 pm


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Post AdamJ
Rocky J wrote:
AdamJ wrote:
Here we go again. More churches and parsonages for sale to support the system and no one is willing or able to say no. I ask a State councilman about a property being for sale and he said he was not aware it was for sale. Can an AB list a property without informing the State Council or does he have the power to do it on his own.



I have been told by more than one state council member that no further propeerties were allowed to be sold. I guess that means nothing as I know that at least two properties are currently on the market to be sold. One pastor who pulled his church from the Church of God under this administration told has stated correctly that the state office was cannibalizing the state. When has enough of the body been eaten that it can no longer survive?


So I Guess it is Mandatory support if an AB just does as he please without any real checks and balances. Truth be told that style of leadership really don’t have true support they just have boards but no real council or accountability.
Hey, DOC
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4/20/20 7:47 am


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Post Dr.Acts
Adam,
Just like roughridercog I got no dog in this fight
BUT if you were an AB wouldn't you want your
team to be on your side - isn't that a given ?
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4/20/20 8:53 am


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Post AdamJ
Of course I would. Any leader would, but if I was doing what is best for the state office (salary) while destroying the local churches it requires Mandatory Support. I’m not saying it is not necessary to sell churches, parsonages, state office and state parsonages to keep salaries paid, but at what point do we say enough is enough. For years we have seen the mission of the state is to just keep the state office running. If the national leadership is not aware of this then someone is fudging the numbers. It will not be long until we should be a mission state. Not even blaming any AB. I’m just asking does it require Mandatory support to keep the COG system running even if we know it is killing us. Hey, DOC
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4/20/20 9:19 am


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Post cogcia
Yes it does require it. You can’t pay salaries without selling properties. Minutes means less than salaries. HQ knows it has been happening and they instruct ABs how to get around the minutes. Friendly Face
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5/6/20 10:36 pm


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