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Did Disciples in John 6:66 who "walked with Jesus no more" remain saved? |
doyle |
That text seems to go to great lengths to note that those who "left Jesus and walked with Him no more," were "Disciples." Can non-believers also be "Disciples?" I've always believed that only believers were called "Disciples."
Does the word "Disciple" in John 6:66, carry the same meaning as for example Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
We believe Scripture is inspired by God. So, it seems that God called them "Disciples." Are "Disciples" who walk away from Jesus and never return, covered by "Once Saved Always Saved?" Whachathink?
Doyle _________________ The largest room in the world is the room for improvement. |
Acts-celerate Owner Posts: 6957 11/13/19 2:52 pm
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Disciple |
4thgeneration |
The word itself in the original language simply means a pupil or learner. And it seems to be the exact same word used here as in other places in the gospels. I think we over read the statement to interpret it to mean they were believers, or people who had been saved. In fact, just above this verse Jesus points out that there are those among them who do not believe. They were pupils or learners who followed him and listened to his teaching, but apparently never fully bought into what he was presenting. So it hit a climactic point, where his teaching was such that they walked away to no longer follow him. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1603 11/14/19 4:03 pm
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Re: Did Disciples in John 6:66 who "walked with Jesus no more" remain saved? |
Resident Skeptic |
doyle wrote: | That text seems to go to great lengths to note that those who "left Jesus and walked with Him no more," were "Disciples." Can non-believers also be "Disciples?" I've always believed that only believers were called "Disciples."
Does the word "Disciple" in John 6:66, carry the same meaning as for example Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
We believe Scripture is inspired by God. So, it seems that God called them "Disciples." Are "Disciples" who walk away from Jesus and never return, covered by "Once Saved Always Saved?" Whachathink?
Doyle |
Nobody was "saved" in a new covenant context in John 6. New Testament salvation is based on the exaltation of Christ. However, for the sake of argument, I must answer that no, those in john 6 did not remain in right standing with God when they rejected Christ. _________________ "It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted Posts: 8065 11/15/19 9:34 am
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diakoneo |
If the gospel accepted on our part is by repentance and faith, (repentance of sin and faith toward God), then either these men were never saved or they lost their salvation. The parable of the sower would indicate Rocky soil.
How can you be delivered and refuse to follow the deliverer or saved and refuse to follow the savior?
If to obtain their salvation they prayed a prayer somewhere some day, then they were still saved. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3382 11/17/19 10:20 am
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Da Sheik |
Quote: | Joh 6:64Â But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. |
The key to understanding 6:66 lies in the preceding verse above. The ones who departed were not true believers. This is consistent with John's teaching on apostasy in other places:
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 11/18/19 10:59 am
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Cojak |
Da Sheik wrote: | Quote: | Joh 6:64Â But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. |
The key to understanding 6:66 lies in the preceding verse above. The ones who departed were not true believers. This is consistent with John's teaching on apostasy in other places:
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. |
That seems a fair analysis _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24282 11/18/19 12:56 pm
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A question for Diakoneo and Da Sheik |
Preacher777 |
I appreciate the things both of you share and usually agree with your points of view. However, I am curious by your responses here. Do you believe in "once saved always saved"? If not what is the difference between your beliefs and the "Once saved always saved" belief?
I am in an extremely busy time and don't want to start a debate but your responses made me curious if there is a difference between your statements and "once saved always saved". |
Friendly Face Posts: 434 11/19/19 11:14 am
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Re: A question for Diakoneo and Da Sheik |
Da Sheik |
Preacher777 wrote: |
I am in an extremely busy time and don't want to start a debate but your responses made me curious if there is a difference between your statements and "once saved always saved". |
I'm not comfortable with the nomenclature of "once saved, always saved" because of the sentiment it often conveys. I do believe in the security of the saints however. John 6 taken in its entirety is a powerful statement of the believer's security. I would encourage everyone to read it prayerfully and try hard not to read bias into the text. Jesus makes it very plain in this chapter that He will lose none of those given to Him by the Father.
Those who eventually walked away and followed Him no more did so because they were not really His sheep to begin with. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 11/20/19 11:35 am
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Preacher777 |
Thanks for the feedback. I never heard that take on John 6 but will really try to lay aside my mindset and study it. Hopefully ALL of us can agree that it is a challenge to read scripture without understanding it through our preconceived beliefs. |
Friendly Face Posts: 434 11/21/19 8:11 am
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Da Sheik |
Preacher777 wrote: | Hopefully ALL of us can agree that it is a challenge to read scripture without understanding it through our preconceived beliefs. |
You said a mouthful there my friend! Amen! |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 11/21/19 1:06 pm
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