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Youth Conference 2019
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Post Patrick Harris
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Patrick Harris wrote:
We need fellowship with other believers (the church). This does not require someone to place membership in or attend A church.

Have to disagree with you there. The local church patterned in the New Testament is much more than simple fellowship with other believers.

This whole article by Ricky Jones is worth a read, but I'll call out this excerpt:

Quote:
I want you to understand that being a part of the universal church without submitting to a local church is not possible, biblical, or healthy.

First, it’s simply not possible. To imply you can be part of the greater community without first being part of the smaller is not logical. You cannot be part of Rotary International without also being part of a local chapter. You cannot be part of the universal human family without first being part of a small immediate family.

Second, it’s not biblical. Every letter in the New Testament assumes Christians are members of local churches. The letters themselves are addressed to local churches. They teach us how to get along with other members, how to encourage the weak within the church, how to conduct ourselves at church, and what to do with unrepentant sinners in the church. They command us to submit to our elders, and encourage us to go to our elders to pray. All these things are impossible if you aren’t a member of a local church. (See 1 and 2 Corinthians, James, Ephesians, 1 and 2 Timothy, and 1 Peter for references.)

Asking where the Bible commands you to be a church member is like asking where the USGA rulebook for golf insists you be a human. The whole book is addressed to the church.

Finally, living without church membership is not healthy. Independence—the desire to choose for yourself what’s right and wrong—is at the heart of sin. You need the humility lesson of submitting to flawed elders. You need the encouragement of sharing victories with your church. You need the fellowship of sharing sufferings with your church.

You need to know we’re all in this life together, and we won’t walk away from you just because you let us down or we disagree. Together we build each other up into the image of Christ; no one can make it alone. I encourage you to rethink the importance of church membership. Our fellowship may be an affliction, but we are a glorious affliction. And we will walk into glory together.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/is-church-membership-really-required/


So basically the stakes have been upped where now you must not only attend a church but must place membership in said church. Per the article.

You may have a case for attending a local fellowship, however, formal membership in a church is not really a scriptural concept, contrary to this article.
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10/2/19 8:58 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Missing the forest for a tree.

Members of Christ's universal church do not abandon local fellowship, submitted to the rule of local elders, in mutual submission one to another with people with whom they would not normally accord.

A lack of desire for this local fellowship is a huge red flag concerning the nature of one's walk with the head of the universal church.

Not saying that applies to you, so don't read it that way. Just saying that committed participation in the local church (which some churches call membership) is a huge deal.
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10/2/19 9:08 am


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Post sheepdogandy
I do not agree with ER's position.

However in light of his insight into the political shenanigans of Cleveland.

I do understand his feelings on the matter.

Being the son-in-law of a General Overseer and the brother-in-law of the President of Lee University, I am sure he could write a book that would knock all of us cross eyed.

Just my O.
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10/2/19 9:16 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
In our church, believers who wish to commit to the local body do go through a "membership" process. However, this is just a word for the following:

1) The believer and elders meeting to ensure the believer understands the church's doctrinal positions and can walk either in agreement with or charity toward them

2) The elders attempting to the best of their ability to affirm that the believer has a basic understanding of the gospel and that his/her testimony of salvation is genuine

3) The believer, elders, and church publicly affirming commitment and covenant with one another

This can be called membership or anything else. The word doesn't matter. What matters is that a believer, elders, and local body publicly affirm commitment to each other.
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10/2/19 9:18 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
The local church shown in Acts had members of the church take care of one another. One of the advantages of membership. In fact the majority of the income of the church went to this purpose.

Not so today.

You might get a prayer, a potluck, and a few bucks handed to you when you are in a crisis - but that is the extent of the churches involvement today.

Sad - but true.
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10/2/19 10:40 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Great point, NBF. The local church in Acts also consisted of massively different people whose only commonality was their faith in Christ.

In the local church, we encounter relationships with people we would NEVER hang out with in real life. People of different races or ethnicities, people of different economic stature, people with different political views, etc. People who are very different from us, people we would never choose to hang out with in our once-weekly coffee house fellowship group.

That reality in the local church is a testimony to us of Christ's power and presence, that he has "broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility." (Eph 2:14-16)

If NBF and DD lived near each other, we might go to the same church and we would be united in one new man, reconciled together to God. That's something only Jesus can do.

(Just kidding - NBF and I have a lot in common and probably would enjoy coffee any time. But the local church is full of people who interact joyously and closely, though they would have never met apart from their union in Christ and mutual submission in a local body.)
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10/2/19 10:58 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Great point, NBF. The local church in Acts also consisted of massively different people whose only commonality was their faith in Christ.

In the local church, we encounter relationships with people we would NEVER hang out with in real life. People of different races or ethnicities, people of different economic stature, people with different political views, etc. People who are very different from us, people we would never choose to hang out with in our once-weekly coffee house fellowship group.

That reality in the local church is a testimony to us of Christ's power and presence, that he has "broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility." (Eph 2:14-16)

If NBF and DD lived near each other, we might go to the same church and we would be united in one new man, reconciled together to God. That's something only Jesus can do.

(Just kidding - NBF and I have a lot in common and probably would enjoy coffee any time. But the local church is full of people who interact joyously and closely, though they would have never met apart from their union in Christ and mutual submission in a local body.)


Agree with this.
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10/2/19 4:46 pm


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