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Questions about tithing
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Post NBF... Aaron Scott
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Aaron Scott wrote:


Many years ago, Karl Strader, who was then pastor of the Carpenter's Home Church in Lakeland--at the time the largest church in Florida, I imagine--said something on his radio program that really resonated with me.

He was taking written questions from the audience and answering them in a Biblical fashion. Someone ask about whether someone who didn't have any extra money should still have to tithe.

Bro. Strader had a great deal of wisdom, I thought, in his reply. He said that if a person didn't have enough money with which to tithe...then they needed to manage their money better.



Did Strader also have a great quip about accumulating debt that you don't intend to pay back? Or does God not have anything to say about debt? Perhaps John Kilpatrick could assist here.




Did you stop reading the Psalms because David committed adultery (assuming that you, a swamp-water-drinking, rotten, lowdown Gator fan, can even read!)?

I don't think that Strader gets everything right. But I felt that he got that one right, since it might have been an attempt to justify not tithing, and, thus, no coming from a sincere place.

On the other hand, even YOU, who gets approximately 99.77% of EVERYTHING wrong (being a Gator fan accounts for fully 80% of your "wrongness quotient"), occasionally--and by that I mean rarely, hardly ever, virtually never, and possibly and maybe) gets something right every now and then, even if by sheer accident. So there's that.

Don't go tu quoque on Strader becuase he got some things wrong. He does preach that Jesus is the Son of God, etc.
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4/30/19 1:32 pm


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Post revuriah
And I’m not trying to justify not tithing. My earlier post said as much. I like what I heard a financial administrator once say. He said, “If you truly can’t tithe, give what you can and let God bless you.” The point was that God would lift that person up to a place of being able to give much more.
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4/30/19 3:57 pm


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Post God gave! Dean Steenburgh
The first example of anything happening is a lesson on giving.
God gave us creation & it started out as His best design in paradise.
God gave us this earth, light, breath & love for each other.
God gives us grace, mercy, forgiveness & multiple chances over and over again w/out a ticket counter numbering the wrongs.
Before, during & after the flood God appealed to us to grant us another opportunity to seek Him, serve Him & live for Him.
God gave us long chasms of time to honor Him over the centuries & yet He never brought it to an end even though man went dark on God for long periods of time.
God so loved the world that He ...Gave! Gave His one & only precious Son so we could live with Him for eternity.

God used many lessons, & thereby in His divine purpose He accomplished His will for each of us by creating an example to "GIVE," & His practice has spanned the centuries since the dawn of time.
It seems reasonable for me to look at the scriptures that deal with giving & to search my heart & ask God how I can give more ...not less!
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5/1/19 4:40 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
revuriah wrote:
And I’m not trying to justify not tithing. My earlier post said as much. I like what I heard a financial administrator once say. He said, “If you truly can’t tithe, give what you can and let God bless you.” The point was that God would lift that person up to a place of being able to give much more.


Nobody need try to justify not believing in a doctrine as weak as the so-called "tithe" teaching.
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5/2/19 11:02 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Nobody need try to justify not believing in a doctrine as weak as the so-called "tithe" teaching.

There certainly should not be a need to do that, but it would seem that there is. Questions about motive appear to be an all-too-common defense among those who endorse tithing as being binding on believers in the New Covenant.

That, or general declarations that Christians should want to give bountifully -- as if anyone is saying otherwise!
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5/2/19 11:32 am


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Post Dean Steenburgh
Maybe if we applied tithe teaching/instruction to other fundamentals we might see a trend.
The bible says little about reading the bible so I wonder how many try to read it or 'not' read it based on a shortage of clear instructions in the word to study it?
I'm not saying it's not completely there but it's kinda lite on the subject.

The bible mentions praying quite a bit but I remember reading a Barna study where I believe it stated the average Christian prays less than 5 minutes a week & the average pastor spent less than 3 minutes a day in prayer.

With average Christians praying little, reading the bible little & looking for ways to give or "tithe" w/out following a simple plan like Mal. 3, it might help to understand Job 36:12, Proverbs 5:23, Proverbs 10:21 & Hosea 4:6 which all speak of God's people lacking knowledge.

I've heard more Christians laugh & almost brag that they pretend to not be home when the JW's or the Mormons knock on the door. We have people knocking on the front door of our house hoping to share "truth" with us & some are looking for ways to dispel or contradict the word of God.
It's no wonder our average church has less than 55 people attending nowadays.


.
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5/8/19 7:56 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Dean, if your answer to the faithlessness of the American church is to correct it by binding them in with easy-to-follow rules, you're missing the point of the gospel.

Free and generous giving comes from radically transformed hearts, not simple-to-follow plans.
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5/8/19 8:02 pm


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Post Dean Steenburgh
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Dean, if your answer to the faithlessness of the American church is to correct it by binding them in with easy-to-follow rules, you're missing the point of the gospel.

Free and generous giving comes from radically transformed hearts, not simple-to-follow plans.


In 40 years of ministry in preaching the "gospel" I have striven to help people to understand God's word fully.
With that said I can clearly state I would never try to bind anyone in rules issues.

Maybe it's your generation or your personal belief that causes you to see it differently.
People for many generations before you understood the biblical principle of giving the tithe & they all seem to have done quite well.
Because of the transformed heart they now feel generous to give ...but give how? It is based on God's word, found in Malachi 3 coming alive in their heart.
We all need handrails & praise God His whole book is full of handrails.
They are saved, baptized, Spirit filled & ready to do work in God's kingdom.
We teach a balanced life of learning God's word, spending time in prayer & offering our time for ministry. We also teach the fundamental basics of tithing.
Part of discipleship is learning the principles of being an effective witness. I don't teach people that they're out of fellowship with God if they don't tithe but I do encourage our folks to honor God financially as outlined by His word.
To be in covenant with God is based in faith ...not my motives to give financially.
God alone sees our heart & our motives so where can I hide my intent?
To become a disciple of Christ it took about 3.1/2 years. Those disciples turned the world upside down because they applied all that they learned.

From what you have stated multiple times over the years it is your "opinion" that you don't believe in the same principle as say someone from my generation. Fair enough.
But I've seen & witnessed the results of being a faithful giver so many countless times that it has become indisputable!
I don't teach & won't teach someone that if they feel like giving today "...very well ...give today because you have a wellspring in your heart to give."
That sounds more like hakuna matata teaching than God's word.
We teach that you give by faith & trust God by faith with your finances just like you do with your personal walk & your salvation. I give God 100% of me & I give from a heart that rejoices in Him.
In other words, my giving isn't based on my mood, it's based on my faith in God, good times or bad.
Malachi is a great example & lesson on giving the basic gift. God gave so I want to give also. I want to be just like my Father & He gave His only Son. His Son taught us to give 100% ...not just 10%.
A believer who shares their income with God will live a life with God as their financial blesser & partner.
You don't have to believe in this teaching method, but it's how I read God's word & what He says is what I believe!
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5/11/19 6:21 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Dean Steenburgh wrote:
In other words, my giving isn't based on my mood, it's based on my faith in God, good times or bad.

Neither is mine, and neither should anyone else's. At no point have I suggested anyone should not be a faithful giver. At no point have I suggested that it is not the responsibility of the Christian to give purposefully, faithfully, generously, and consistently.

I'd think if the case for tithing as a binding command in the New Covenant was a tenth as strong as you let on, you'd be eager to talk Scripture and covenants and law and gospel and all the other fun and fascinating stuff, and let Scripture speak for itself. Maybe sometime we can try having a respectful and charitable discussion about a biblical text with the personal stuff left out.
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5/11/19 8:17 pm


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Post Dean Steenburgh
Dave wrote
Quote:
Neither is mine, and neither should anyone else's. At no point have I suggested anyone should not be a faithful giver. At no point have I suggested that it is not the responsibility of the Christian to give purposefully, faithfully, generously, and consistently.


At no point have I accused you of such suggestions nor have I leaned into any emotional feelings to make this personal, so for me I thought we were having a "respectful and charitable discussion about a biblical text with the personal stuff left out."

If we're just talking about binding N.T. commands then we might look at the gifts of the Spirit.
We're instructed to pursue them but they're not a binding command essential for salvation. Do most people pursue those? I doubt it.
If it merely came down to biblical dogma then maybe we've failed to follow the commands of women remaining silent in church & other basic tenets found in the N.T. that we don't follow.
It seems that our churches have picked & chose the parts they want to follow & the parts they want to exclude.
We follow the 10 commandments from Deut. 12 & we still hold to the teachings of faith exhibited by Abraham who tithed. (this is O.T. stuff but we apply it today)
Jesus told the religious people of His day not to neglect the tithe in Matt. 23:23 & we know this is in the N.T.

As I said Dave, this most likely falls into a generational issue for most folks in my opinion.
Most Christians within 10 years of my age & older probably don't look at it like you do.
We see it as an essential part of our walk based loosely on a requirement that hinges on God's blessings.
I might be wrong but it's worked so far.
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5/11/19 9:01 pm


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Post Tithing to what?....lets get real here.... caseyleejones
I think everyone here believes that one of the missions of the believer is to be a giver and good steward.

The question is this, does it go to the church you attend? Where does it say you give to the church you attend? We have home church. We still tithe and give above. So, 100% goes to local food pantry(the hungry), India missionary, Africa Missionary, and another place that prints bibles for countries where the gospel is shut off.

At the same time, if you attend once a week at a place where there is a building with bills and a staff, then in all fairness, you need to support them.

Maybe...just maybe....tithes and offerings are about helping people directly. Whereas, giving to your church is much like a donation to charity perhaps?
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5/12/19 7:42 am


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