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Your thoughts on "We Are Church" by Francis Chan.

 
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Post Your thoughts on "We Are Church" by Francis Chan. caseyleejones
...a paradigm shift is an understatement. Long story short.....

Chan felt the current American church model of church focused on a small number of people up front and the rest spectators. When I read some of his stuff, I got it. His model is focused on people and being the church.

He left his very successful ministry and church and began building small groups in homes instead of church in buildings. Apparently, he is successful at it now. However, when my wife and I read his approach....here is what we see.....

1) They still tithe/give in their small groups and send some of the money up the chain

2) They meet as a whole in a public facility once a month

3) There is a select passage or chapters each attender is to read before they come to their groups and they discuss.

4) The focus is on individuals as opposed to services

It seems the model pretty much adheres to simple small groups but there is structure and a hierarchy. I don't like #1 in that it reminds me of a denomination. There is structure to it.

So, thoughts?
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1/13/19 6:32 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
What's wrong with structure?

I'm very wary of Chan nowadays as he is now doing conferences with fringe-charismatic NAR types.
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1/13/19 7:07 pm


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Post I'm just the opposite. I was wary of him before.... caseyleejones
mega church, which is fine, but centered around a personality. Acts-perienced Poster
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1/13/19 7:12 pm


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Post By the way...NAR? Which fringe types? caseyleejones
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1/13/19 7:13 pm


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Post The structure part I understand. But it still has the sense of caseyleejones
a denomination. Then again, his object was to migrate away from church building, one preacher, a few singers...while the rest are spectators. Which at the moment, he is successfully doing. Acts-perienced Poster
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1/13/19 7:16 pm


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Post Re: By the way...NAR? Which fringe types? Dave Dorsey
caseyleejones wrote:
........

Bill Johnson, Todd Bentley, Lou Engle, Todd White, Heidi Baker, etc.

https://kingdom.events/blog/event/the-send/
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1/13/19 7:25 pm


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Post I have issues with the first couple.... caseyleejones
but I am not real familiar with the latter...Heidi Baker...I might be. She gave a prophetic word and I think is the grand daughter of HA Baker who wrote some good books. Acts-perienced Poster
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1/13/19 7:38 pm


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Post Da Sheik
It always seems a little disingenuous to me when someone rises to celebrity status and then rides the circuit selling books and doing conferences about how the American Church is doing it all wrong. I think he should sell all that he has, give it to the poor, disappear into obscurity in a small house church with a few members. Acts Enthusiast
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1/14/19 10:20 am


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Post He has disavowed that "direction' and his net worth caseyleejones
Da Sheik wrote:
It always seems a little disingenuous to me when someone rises to celebrity status and then rides the circuit selling books and doing conferences about how the American Church is doing it all wrong. I think he should sell all that he has, give it to the poor, disappear into obscurity in a small house church with a few members.


is substantially less from recent numbers. He may very well have given all of it away.
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1/14/19 1:42 pm


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Post Francis Chan Mark Ledbetter
devoted the proceeds from "Crazy Love" to the development of benevolent activities in Africa.

He left the mega church because he believed the church had become dependent upon one person.

In general he has taught the church is more driven by consumerism than evangelism - people shop for churches based upon what they can offer to meet their perceived needs - children's church, youth group, etc.

He has taught many are drawn to church services not because they want to seek God, hear His word, and prayer, but because of a dynamic speaker, trending singing group or singing artist, etc.

He and his wife sold their belongings and moved to a simple dwelling to follow what they believe God was directing them to do; they subsequently, as a family, went to SE Asia and spent time with the underground church in China, visiting churches in Thailand and India.

They returned to the U.S. and started working through "house churches" (for a insightful view of this development in the U.S. see George Barna's "Revolution.")

Their chief focus is upon developing believers in their gifts and using those gifts in outreach, are reaching many who have left prison and become believers and excited about house church development. They seek to pattern themselves much like the Church found in the Book of Acts and are being very successful, deflecting away from a strong charismatic person to an inclusive, trained leadership.

They have a strong sense of mission to the poor and plant house churches among the poorer sections of San Francisco.

The House Churches do come together periodically for worship and training and prayer.

To walk away from what Chan saw as a flawed mega-church, consumeristic, popular labor to embrace a more simplistic, enthusiastic, and effective outreach among many who would never darken the doors of most institutionalized churches who single mission is to preserve the status quo, and thereby by seeking to save their life they will lose it, takes vision and dedication many lack because they are caught up in a system of perpetuating humanistic driven programs, worldly methodologies, and idolatrous admiration of charismatic personalities rather than the Charismata of the Holy Spirit.

This, and for other reasons stated in Barna's book (referenced above), there are 20 million who have ditched conventional church for alternative expressions of faith.

While there are others, Chan and David Platt are on the forefront of a much needed reformation challenging the stereotypes that fail to inspire, equip, empowered and release the "laity" of the church. They have atrophied in the pews because they are fed fluff and are not encouraged to exercise their gifts in effective service to the body of Christ.
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1/16/19 8:01 pm


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Post This Below.... caseyleejones
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
devoted the proceeds from "Crazy Love" to the development of benevolent activities in Africa.

He left the mega church because he believed the church had become dependent upon one person.

In general he has taught the church is more driven by consumerism than evangelism - people shop for churches based upon what they can offer to meet their perceived needs - children's church, youth group, etc.

He has taught many are drawn to church services not because they want to seek God, hear His word, and prayer, but because of a dynamic speaker, trending singing group or singing artist, etc.

He and his wife sold their belongings and moved to a simple dwelling to follow what they believe God was directing them to do; they subsequently, as a family, went to SE Asia and spent time with the underground church in China, visiting churches in Thailand and India.

They returned to the U.S. and started working through "house churches" (for a insightful view of this development in the U.S. see George Barna's "Revolution.")

Their chief focus is upon developing believers in their gifts and using those gifts in outreach, are reaching many who have left prison and become believers and excited about house church development. They seek to pattern themselves much like the Church found in the Book of Acts and are being very successful, deflecting away from a strong charismatic person to an inclusive, trained leadership.

They have a strong sense of mission to the poor and plant house churches among the poorer sections of San Francisco.

The House Churches do come together periodically for worship and training and prayer.

To walk away from what Chan saw as a flawed mega-church, consumeristic, popular labor to embrace a more simplistic, enthusiastic, and effective outreach among many who would never darken the doors of most institutionalized churches who single mission is to preserve the status quo, and thereby by seeking to save their life they will lose it, takes vision and dedication many lack because they are caught up in a system of perpetuating humanistic driven programs, worldly methodologies, and idolatrous admiration of charismatic personalities rather than the Charismata of the Holy Spirit.

This, and for other reasons stated in Barna's book (referenced above), there are 20 million who have ditched conventional church for alternative expressions of faith.

While there are others, Chan and David Platt are on the forefront of a much needed reformation challenging the stereotypes that fail to inspire, equip, empowered and release the "laity" of the church. They have atrophied in the pews because they are fed fluff and are not encouraged to exercise their gifts in effective service to the body of Christ.
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1/16/19 9:04 pm


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