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diakoneo |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Though Ron Paul was pro-life, the Libertarian Party unfortunately is strongly pro-choice, and does not view the unborn infant as a person with the inalienable right to life. Libertarians also are for the following: “Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes†without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services.“ https://www.lp.org/platform/
The Libertarian Party is in favor of legalizing all abortion, gambling, ‘consensual’ prostitution, and legalizing ‘recreational’ drug use, which would include all drugs, not just pot, obviously.
These are several of the reasons I couldn’t support them in good conscience at all. I can’t imagine very many conservatives becoming Libertarians, for these very same reasons. |
The idea that if we just vote for 45 more years and maybe we can legislate the morality we want is a proven pipe dream. No, I don't agree with the morality of roughly half of the people in this country or in the libertarian movement. But you are missing t he point, while they may not agree with my morals, they are 100% against government funding it. They are 100% for freedom of speech, expression (preaching), self defense, etc... We need to think that over is all I'm saying here. A way forward. |
The Ds and Rs are ensconced in money and power. This system has the populace as a whole over a barrel. They have basically removed the power of the people by offering "goodies" that actually belong to them (lol)back to them. I believe there are some good leaders out there who could rally the church to true revival but unfortunately they have fallen to the greed monster as well.
Greed has gotten us to where we are. Greed of leaders and greed of citizenry. We need someone like the Apostle Peter who will stand up against the greed of the Church the way he did against Ananias and Saphira and Simon the sorcerer. Peter knew how destructive greed can be but unfortunately in a system where numbers are the only thing that really count, no leader has the intestinal fortitude to do the job! |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
12/18/18 10:33 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Though Ron Paul was pro-life, the Libertarian Party unfortunately is strongly pro-choice, and does not view the unborn infant as a person with the inalienable right to life. Libertarians also are for the following: “Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes†without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services.“ https://www.lp.org/platform/
The Libertarian Party is in favor of legalizing all abortion, gambling, ‘consensual’ prostitution, and legalizing ‘recreational’ drug use, which would include all drugs, not just pot, obviously.
These are several of the reasons I couldn’t support them in good conscience at all. I can’t imagine very many conservatives becoming Libertarians, for these very same reasons. |
The idea that if we just vote for 45 more years and maybe we can legislate the morality we want is a proven pipe dream. No, I don't agree with the morality of roughly half of the people in this country or in the libertarian movement. But you are missing t he point, while they may not agree with my morals, they are 100% against government funding it. They are 100% for freedom of speech, expression (preaching), self defense, etc... We need to think that over is all I'm saying here. A way forward. |
Since I am arguing for a third party option, I’m obviously not saying we should just vote for the GOP 45 more years and hope for the best.
Saying that we can’t legislate morality totally misses the point, in my view. By definition, taxation and laws either encourage or discourage behavior. A government that encourages, say, abortion or gambling or prostitution by legalizing it is failing in its duty to promote the principles of life, liberty and honest dealing among its citizens. When government recognizes murder as a crime against society, isn’t that ‘legislating morality,’ by the other side of the same token that legalizing abortion is? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
12/18/18 10:50 pm
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UncleJD |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Though Ron Paul was pro-life, the Libertarian Party unfortunately is strongly pro-choice, and does not view the unborn infant as a person with the inalienable right to life. Libertarians also are for the following: “Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes†without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services.“ https://www.lp.org/platform/
The Libertarian Party is in favor of legalizing all abortion, gambling, ‘consensual’ prostitution, and legalizing ‘recreational’ drug use, which would include all drugs, not just pot, obviously.
These are several of the reasons I couldn’t support them in good conscience at all. I can’t imagine very many conservatives becoming Libertarians, for these very same reasons. |
The idea that if we just vote for 45 more years and maybe we can legislate the morality we want is a proven pipe dream. No, I don't agree with the morality of roughly half of the people in this country or in the libertarian movement. But you are missing t he point, while they may not agree with my morals, they are 100% against government funding it. They are 100% for freedom of speech, expression (preaching), self defense, etc... We need to think that over is all I'm saying here. A way forward. |
Since I am arguing for a third party option, I’m obviously not saying we should just vote for the GOP 45 more years and hope for the best.
Saying that we can’t legislate morality totally misses the point, in my view. By definition, taxation and laws either encourage or discourage behavior. A government that encourages, say, abortion or gambling or prostitution by legalizing it is failing in its duty to promote the principles of life, liberty and honest dealing among its citizens. When government recognizes murder as a crime against society, isn’t that ‘legislating morality,’ by the other side of the same token that legalizing abortion is? |
You're right, and the abortion debate is the main reason I haven't yet fully supported the Libertarian party (capitol L). However, I ask this question. Since we live in a democracy and laws can and do change at the whim of people, could not a moral law get overturned at the drop of a hat? It did in 1973. Would not our energy be better, or just as well spent on winning the lost in an environment of freedom to do so (rather than spending the same energy at the political level), stopping abortion through our witness, and at the very least end public funding of it? One thing that seems certain, our best chance so far, the GOP, has done nothing to stop it and even forces us to pay for it. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
12/19/18 10:20 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | You're right, and the abortion debate is the main reason I haven't yet fully supported the Libertarian party (capitol L). However, I ask this question. Since we live in a democracy and laws can and do change at the whim of people, could not a moral law get overturned at the drop of a hat? It did in 1973. Would not our energy be better, or just as well spent on winning the lost in an environment of freedom to do so (rather than spending the same energy at the political level), stopping abortion through our witness, and at the very least end public funding of it? One thing that seems certain, our best chance so far, the GOP, has done nothing to stop it and even forces us to pay for it. |
I think this is a really astute point. I'd also note that a lot of philosophical work needs to be done in terms of how people understand rights and liberty before Casey or Roe were to be seriously challenged, and while I also voted for the Constitution party in 2016, I can see a case that the Libertarian party would at least move the needle toward a better understanding of liberty. To put it another way, I think it would be a lot easier to convince a libertarian that a fetus was a person who deserved rights, especially as more scientific evidence of fetal experience emerges, than it would be any kind of leftist. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
12/19/18 10:39 am
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | You're right, and the abortion debate is the main reason I haven't yet fully supported the Libertarian party (capitol L). However, I ask this question. Since we live in a democracy and laws can and do change at the whim of people, could not a moral law get overturned at the drop of a hat? It did in 1973. Would not our energy be better, or just as well spent on winning the lost in an environment of freedom to do so (rather than spending the same energy at the political level), stopping abortion through our witness, and at the very least end public funding of it? One thing that seems certain, our best chance so far, the GOP, has done nothing to stop it and even forces us to pay for it. |
I think this is a really astute point. I'd also note that a lot of philosophical work needs to be done in terms of how people understand rights and liberty before Casey or Roe were to be seriously challenged, and while I also voted for the Constitution party in 2016, I can see a case that the Libertarian party would at least move the needle toward a better understanding of liberty. To put it another way, I think it would be a lot easier to convince a libertarian that a fetus was a person who deserved rights, especially as more scientific evidence of fetal experience emerges, than it would be any kind of leftist. |
Exactly. Ron Paul left the Libertarian party, but is still revered by most in it, and he always said that he was pro-life because as a doctor, he absolutely believes that the unborn is the most vulnerable individual in America and their rights are worth protecting. Individual liberty being the bedrock of libertarianism, I believe its a debate that can still be won. But even in the meantime, all libertarian minded Americans are 100% against tax-payer funded abortions, and are 100% in favor of Christians (or anyone) being able to express their beliefs and live according to those beliefs (think NO gay-cakes for example). |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
12/19/18 10:59 am
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Eddie Robbins |
| Donald Trump never intended on building a wall. That was all hype to get his base fired up. He said he would build a wall and Mexico would pay for it. Then, he is asked Congress for the money or he’ll shut down the government. Now, he’s backed off of that. He never intended on building a wall. However, with 2020 coming up, he will still have to make it seem like something is being done. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
12/19/18 2:24 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| I told several friends of mine, “That will *never* happen,†when Trump first started saying in 2016, “We will build a wall,†etc. He is all about image and ‘bigness,’ but he has been more or less just full of it. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
12/19/18 2:47 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
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UncleJD |
| With all due respect, this is about the GOP and the pro-life platform, not Trump. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
12/19/18 3:48 pm
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