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Post Re: No point Da Sheik
spartanfan wrote:
Every time they do I prove it was grape juice and then that ends the discussion.


You feeling lucky? http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=88876

Laughing
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12/12/18 3:45 pm


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Post Well, so much for .... Mat
Well, so much for getting "traction" on the merger of COG and COGOP.

So lets go with wine - both its use in communion and consumption as long as you don't get drunk (might as well add beer and the occasional short of Jack, just to be sociable).

Do you know any COG pastors who allow ministers from other denominations to preach knowing they consume wine, beer and strong drinks? The pastor knows the minister (and his denomination) have no problem with consumption of alcohol, he just does not let his people know.

Would you be surprised to learn that you large church pastor, State Overseer (or any SO) or General Officials drink when not among COG folks?

Here's a common saying, "where ever four Episcopal Bishops are gathered, there's a fifth."

Mat
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12/13/18 11:10 am


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Post Da Sheik
Do you mean, would I allow a pastor to come preach who was Spirit-filled, yet had different convictions than I do on disputable matters? Sure. Chances are, every pastor has invited a guest speaker who doesn’t agree with them on non-essentials. The exception would be independent pastors. They tend to invite clones of themselves lest their traditions should die. Acts Enthusiast
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12/13/18 12:47 pm


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Post Spurgeon and C.W. Lewis smoked.... Aaron Scott
Of course, I'm sad to report that they are now burning in hell, but other than that, they seemed to be saved. So sad. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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12/13/18 12:49 pm


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Post Re: Spurgeon and C.W. Lewis smoked.... Da Sheik
Aaron Scott wrote:
Of course, I'm sad to report that they are now burning in hell, but other than that, they seemed to be saved. So sad.


Imagine what reformations Martin Luther might have achieved if not for having an occasional pint of ale.
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12/13/18 2:01 pm


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Post So there is no need ... Mat
So there is no need to deflect if the church folks ask about the invited guest speakers practices concerning drinking?

Was it Luther who said something like, "if you're going to sin, sin boldly." Now, according to the above post, drinking is not sin, so why not set your church free (and yourself) when it comes to being open about drinking?

Mat
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12/13/18 2:57 pm


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Post Re: Spurgeon and C.W. Lewis smoked.... UncleJD
Da Sheik wrote:
Aaron Scott wrote:
Of course, I'm sad to report that they are now burning in hell, but other than that, they seemed to be saved. So sad.


Imagine what reformations Martin Luther might have achieved if not for having an occasional pint of ale.


I thought that was funny so I looked it up. It seems Luther credits Wittenberg beer for helping him with the Reformation. Sort of like a commercial. Maybe a beer company should use this Smile

Quote:
In short, I will preach it, teach it, write it, but I will constrain no man by force, for faith must come freely without compulsion. Take myself as an example. I opposed indulgences and all the papists, but never with force. I simply taught, preached, and wrote God’s Word; otherwise I did nothing. And while I slept [cf. Mark 4:26–29], or drank Wittenberg beer with my friends Philip and Amsdorf,6 the Word so greatly weakened the papacy that no prince or emperor ever inflicted such losses upon it. I did nothing; the Word did everything. (LW 51:71)
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12/13/18 2:58 pm


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Post Re: No point Cojak
Dave Dorsey wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
Every time they do I prove it was grape juice and then that ends the discussion.

That, or they feel so bad for ya they don't want to keep piling on...

Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
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12/13/18 10:31 pm


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Post Re: So there is no need ... Da Sheik
Mat wrote:
So there is no need to deflect if the church folks ask about the invited guest speakers practices concerning drinking?

Was it Luther who said something like, "if you're going to sin, sin boldly." Now, according to the above post, drinking is not sin, so why not set your church free (and yourself) when it comes to being open about drinking?

Mat


I don’t drink or encourage others to drink. The Bible is full of examples of lives messed up because of drunkenness. But the scriptures don’t demand abstinence so I refuse to add to scripture. Just wanted to clarify my stance personally. This topic produces such hyperbole. If someone suggests the Bible does not command abstinence, then immediately charges of encouraging drunkenness come forth. It’s like saying either you’re a Eunuch or a Whoremonger.
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12/13/18 10:44 pm


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Post Cojak
I would love to see a reconciliation. It would be 'sorta' Godly don't you think? I have reconciled with someone I had a terrible legal and family problem with. the result has been renewing an earlier good friendship. It lasts until his day. the reconciliation came as a result of my pastor preaching a sermon that I KNEW I should take seriously and did.

As Mat mentioned locally it is seldom a problem. since my pastor, Wayne Carter retired I have attended several good COGOP churches where he was invited to preach. coming together was the center of conversations.

At Mat's suggestion we attended a blessed service at the COGOP in NewpOrt News, One he pastored a few years ago. I believe it was the 'Church of all Nations'. Speaking to one member there, they felt we should come back together.

I realize the Admin positions would be a problem. Crying or Very sad
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12/13/18 10:49 pm


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Post Re: So there is no need ... Cojak
Da Sheik wrote:
Mat wrote:
So there is no need to deflect if the church folks ask about the invited guest speakers practices concerning drinking?

Was it Luther who said something like, "if you're going to sin, sin boldly." Now, according to the above post, drinking is not sin, so why not set your church free (and yourself) when it comes to being open about drinking?

Mat


I don’t drink or encourage others to drink. The Bible is full of examples of lives messed up because of drunkenness. But the scriptures don’t demand abstinence so I refuse to add to scripture. Just wanted to clarify my stance personally. This topic produces such hyperbole. If someone suggests the Bible does not command abstinence, then immediately charges of encouraging drunkenness come forth. It’s like saying either you’re a Eunuch or a Whoremonger.

Smile
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12/13/18 10:50 pm


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Post Reconciliation, even the ... Mat
Cojak wrote:
I would love to see a reconciliation. It would be 'sorta' Godly don't you think? I have reconciled with someone I had a terrible legal and family problem with. the result has been renewing an earlier good friendship. It lasts until his day. the reconciliation came as a result of my pastor preaching a sermon that I KNEW I should take seriously and did.

As Mat mentioned locally it is seldom a problem. since my pastor, Wayne Carter retired I have attended several good COGOP churches where he was invited to preach. coming together was the center of conversations.

At Mat's suggestion we attended a blessed service at the COGOP in NewpOrt News, One he pastored a few years ago. I believe it was the 'Church of all Nations'. Speaking to one member there, they felt we should come back together.

I realize the Admin positions would be a problem. Crying or Very sad


Reconciliation, even between small and large (COGOP and COG) requires both parties to forgive and accept, which is the being of the process to restoration. It would require looking above the top leadership position to the Head of the Church.

Here's a "word," in 10 years without reconciliation both organization will be much more entrenched in their own identity, with new leaders committed to the old systems. However much the increased in size of the trappings of leadership and institutions on the top levels, on the local church level there will be diminishing numbers.

It is a blindness to not comprehend the growing independent church movement and to overlook the waste of multiple leadership structures. If the current division is "ordained" in Cleveland, why is the largest church in town Baptist?

Mat
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12/14/18 8:42 am


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