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What "Toning It Down" Has Done for the Church of God... |
Aaron Scott |
THIS IS MY OPINION.
At first, it seemed like a very good idea to make ourselves more appealing to those who were not familiar with Pentecost. Our first step was making some very reasonable adjustments toward greater inclusiveness (as well as perhaps preserving a significant percentage of the membership we already had) by changing some of Practical Commitments.
Then, only in a few progressive churches at first, there was a move toward what we now call "seeker-sensitive" churches. The sentiment is one to be respected, but the net result, I am afraid, was to cause a largely permanent dilution of Pentecostal worship. I recall a post here a number of years ago that, in so many words, indicated that traditional Pentecostal expression was "weird."
Eventually, we reached a tipping point. We had--perhaps with the best of intentions--tamped down our traditional Pentecostal expressions long enough, had drawn in enough people who did not engage in "weird" behaviors, had diluted the congregation with a mix of Pentecostals that had changed their ways and groups that had no example of Pentecostal expression to follow, etc., that we no longer did it like we used to.
I want to say that I am no exception to this case. It can indeed by a challenge to really worship when those around you aren't. It's like going to a John MacArthur service and shouting out "Hallelujah" at some point he's made: It's not going to well-received, I imagine.
As much as it might be important to "ramp people up" to Pentecostal expression, I am afraid that, in many cases, that ramp has worked as worked in both directions.
I'm not making a big case out of this. It's just an observance that I've come to think has some validity. People don't have to do it like we used to do it to be saved and on their way to heaven. But it seems that, while we are on our way to heaven, we have let go of some things that would have made the trip more glorious. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 9/14/18 8:52 am
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Its not just the COG |
UncleJD |
You are right, for decades we (and other's like the AG) were so stigmatized in American society that many longed for a day where persecution from other mainline churches would end. I think that led to the demise of our distinctives. I don't recall hearing from the pulpit that we should "not emphasize tongues and other manifestations of gifts" until the mid to late 80s. Back then, it seemed to make sense as it was presented as an attempt to reach more people. But in retrospect, I think it grieved the Holy Spirit. But its not just a COG thing, its in the AG as well and probably spreading. Its sad that my own children have seen less than a handful of the types of outpourings that I thought was commonplace when I was growing up. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3139 9/14/18 9:09 am
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May I ask a very tough question? |
roughridercog |
Are we bemoaning a loss of Pentecost or a loss of Pentecostal style? _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25306 9/14/18 12:58 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I think it is both an issue of intentionally toning it down in many cases, as well as simple lukewarmness that always happens whenever the heat of first love is not maintained. No love relationship can ever properly be sustained without continued wholehearted affection and singleminded attention. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12792 9/14/18 1:26 pm
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Re: May I ask a very tough question? |
UncleJD |
roughridercog wrote: | Are we bemoaning a loss of Pentecost or a loss of Pentecostal style? |
Oh the "style" is still prevalent. We see Baptists and everyone raising hands and shouting as much as Pentecostals these days. I guess that is a good thing. But I think we're talking about Pentecostal specific experience of the gifts (tongues, prophecy, etc..) |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3139 9/14/18 3:11 pm
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sheepdogandy |
We still have it!
Classical Pentecostal expression.
Whole lot of speaking in tongues, shouting and all the other "stuff" that made the Church of God a great place to go to church.
More than an outward display but a genuine demonstration of the power of God.
We do just about everything the "professionals" say will kill your attendance.
Yet we thrive.
Glory to God! _________________ Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7298 9/15/18 1:11 pm
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Re: May I ask a very tough question? |
Da Sheik |
roughridercog wrote: | Are we bemoaning a loss of Pentecost or a loss of Pentecostal style? |
Good question. Perhaps a bit of both, but my guess is the latter. I grew up when it wasn’t cool to be Pentecostal. I think that galvanized us to some degree. I think it’s ironic that the church we look at as the model for what a Pentecostal Church should be (the Corinthian Church) was an example of Pentecost gone wrong. Paul was thankful for the gift of tongues, but saw them subordinate to the preaching of the Word in the assembly.
I Cor 14:18-19
“I thank God that I speak in tongues more than any of you. But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.â€
â€â€(NLT‬‬) |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 9/15/18 5:26 pm
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FLRon |
The last few churches of God that I have attended are more in line with a “community churchâ€. The type where a lot of different faiths assemble together, with each holding to their own unique distinctives.
The church I currently attend is an example of this. Other than the name on the sign out front, you would not know you were in a Church of God. New members are taken in with no prior teaching about what makes the COG unique, and no follow up later.
If I’m being brutally honest here, I see far more “form of godliness†than I see the real power of God being displayed in our churches today. Then again, we are witnessing a falling away in this day.
Sad, actually. _________________ “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater Posts: 771 9/15/18 6:50 pm
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Re: May I ask a very tough question? |
Cojak |
Da Sheik wrote: | roughridercog wrote: | Are we bemoaning a loss of Pentecost or a loss of Pentecostal style? |
Good question. Perhaps a bit of both, but my guess is the latter. I grew up when it wasn’t cool to be Pentecostal. I think that galvanized us to some degree. ..... |
I wish I had said that. I like the way you put it, THAT did GALVANIZE us. People stayed an hour after service fellow shipping while the kids played outside. I think mainly because it wasn't 'cool' to be Church of God (Pentecostal) when they had to work and rub shoulders with folks who thought we were more like a cult. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 9/16/18 10:02 pm
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Cojak |
I am not the oldest contributor here but I remember back to the time when (trying to be nice here) we had 'some wild fire'. Some folks, me included many times, were despondent when a minister or member would state proudly, I would rather have 'wild fire' than no fire. It was said like we had no choice.
I talked to a young man the other day who said, "I can speak in tongues any time I want to now."
I kept looking back over my life, and it did not seem the same with me. It seemed to be certain circumstances and urging that I speak 'in tongues'. I have always sorta wanted to speak in Chinese to convert a Chinese. (Or any other language) I do wonder why that does not happen more in our society, since we do have many cultures in the USA that we never have before (I will clarify that by saying the South East.) _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 9/16/18 10:12 pm
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caveator |
sheepdogandy wrote: | We still have it!
Classical Pentecostal expression.
Whole lot of speaking in tongues, shouting and all the other "stuff" that made the Church of God a great place to go to church.
More than an outward display but a genuine demonstration of the power of God.
We do just about everything the "professionals" say will kill your attendance.
Yet we thrive.
Glory to God! |
Congratulations! |
Acts-celerater Posts: 586 9/17/18 2:05 pm
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Galvinizing... |
Aaron Scott |
Cojak wrote: | Da Sheik wrote: | roughridercog wrote: | Are we bemoaning a loss of Pentecost or a loss of Pentecostal style? |
Good question. Perhaps a bit of both, but my guess is the latter. I grew up when it wasn’t cool to be Pentecostal. I think that galvanized us to some degree. ..... |
I wish I had said that. I like the way you put it, THAT did GALVANIZE us. People stayed an hour after service fellow shipping while the kids played outside. I think mainly because it wasn't 'cool' to be Church of God (Pentecostal) when they had to work and rub shoulders with folks who thought we were more like a cult. |
If I recall correctly, in Like a Mighty Army, Bro. Conn indicated that our being rejected by mainstream Christianity caused us to be a bit insular, focusing inwardly to a significant degree. This not only gave us a depth of fellowship that I don't think many other churches have, but it also was a sort of inoculation, I guess you could say, against the dilution that came about as we increasingly tried to either fit in...or appeal to more people.
It seems to be instructive to note that when we were NOT accepted/acceptable by/to others, we were never more effective in terms of spirituality and even perhaps in terms of percentage growth. But the more we have fit in, it seems the less spiritual we've become (at least in terms of holding our Pentecostalism). And while we have some truly large churches now, many of our smaller ones are withering, which might make it somewhat of a wash (at least in the USA).
It gets worse. When Samson told Delilah that if his hair were cut he would become like ANY OTHER MAN, he was perhaps preaching an unintentional sermon to us. When some of our churches sought to become more appealing--you know, like other churches (although we would never dare admit that)--I am pretty sure that many of them wound up being just another church on the block. And if you are pretty much like anyone else for the most part, then you lose your value proposition. After all, for the most part, if there are two McDonald's on the same block, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference which one you choose.
But when we did get in a group of people who apparently were coming only because we WERE NO LONGER BEING WHO WE REALLY WERE, they served to not only cause us to continue toning it down (after all, we didn't want to lose them--we'd tried too hard to get them!), but they diluted our churches.
We have more people now? So what? I'd be willing to half our denomination's size if we could truly reclaim what, at least to me, it seems we lost. After all, if we're not a whole lot different than everyone else, they can get saved and go to church at the mainline church down the road, so the Kingdom isn't really losing any ground if we did that.
But I have accepted that THERE IS NO GOING BACK. Not as a denomination. A person here and there, or a church here and there, might be able to get back to where we used to be, but it's just too big of a deal to try to turn a tipping-point number of churches back. First, most aren't wanting to go back. And even if the pastor or leadership did, there are too many who are likely good with it being like it is (especially if they have no knowledge of how it used to be).
Just my thoughts. Again.
Last edited by Aaron Scott on 9/18/18 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 9/17/18 4:51 pm
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Re: Galvinizing... |
Cojak |
Aaron Scott wrote: | ... After all, for the most part, if there are two McDonald's on the same block, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference which one you choose.
... |
Very good comparrison, I like that. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 9/17/18 10:37 pm
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diakoneo |
If this was localized to just Church of God, I would say, "yeah there is something we could do to "get back", but if you speak with a lot of folks in different denominations (including non-pentecostal), you will likely get the same conversation going on in this thread
This past Sunday Loran Livingston touched on spiritual Babylon's influence on the church. I believe that is what is occurring now and it is much more than shouting, tongues, being slain in the spirit etc. It is the influence of affluence. Yes, wealth has negatively affected the body of Christ. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3382 9/18/18 6:19 am
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