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Simon (the sorcerer)

 
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Post Simon (the sorcerer) Bro Bob
Without going and re-reading Acts 8, did Simon (the sorcerer) make it to Heaven?

Now go read it again and let me know.

BB
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8/12/18 7:46 am


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Post Re: Simon (the sorcerer) Mat
Bro Bob wrote:
Without going and re-reading Acts 8, did Simon (the sorcerer) make it to Heaven?

Now go read it again and let me know.

BB


I don't know about heaven, but he was "big shot" in town and most likely a money man, maybe a big giver. He may not have made it to heaven, but could have been on the church counsel. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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8/12/18 7:57 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Unless he truly repented some time later, no, he was not saved. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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8/12/18 9:29 am


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Post FLRon
“Head knowledge” won’t get you in the door.
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Post Carolyn Smith
It sounds to me as though Simon wanted to truly do what was right in the end, so if he was sincere in asking God to change his heart, yes, he went to heaven.

But people that have had a "power trip" and know how to manipulate people usually have a very hard time letting go of that or changing. It can be done but they must have a true desire to change.
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Post Bro Bob
This story is powerful to me.

I just completed a series in our SS class of the parables of Christ. But this was not a parable. It was the real thing with real people and speaks to me on so many levels.

Unlike a parable which contains a core meaning but not always a picture that you can draw every possible correlation from, this one actually is a life example that truly settles for me some questions that good people have of a doctrinal nature.

Calvinists will say that he wasn't "truly" saved in the first place. But a plain reading of the text says otherwise. And Peter's cure for his problem did not include instruction to truly repent this time and do his first works over. Phillip, the 2nd deacon chosen by his church family is the evangelist. Being the 2nd deacon chosen tells us that Phillip was spirit filled. And his sermon was powerful, and wherever he went folks were saved and folks were healed, and something I have never witnessed, demons were cast out of people. But for some reason that I can't explain, folks were not being spirit filled. This is a big problem for those who say you get it all when you get saved. Who knows how long it took for the news of this revival to reach back to Jerusalem and for them to send Peter and John to them?

Simon meanwhile had every reason to hate the arrival of this new message. But he didn't. He believed, as the others did, and he followed Christ's example in water baptism as his first act of obedience. Never again are we told of his practicing his magic.

And this next thing stands out to me: Though he marveled as he followed Phillip, he never offered Phillip any money to share with him the powers that Phillip was performing.

Why not? (I don't know.) Oh what I would be willing to pay for the power that Phillip was applying! I have a friend who is now home and paralyzed from the waist down from a small plane crash. If I had such power, I would be on my way to Ohio to lay hands on him.

We have been praying in our class for a young girl (12 y.o.) who has cancer in her knee. She is at all the risks of cancer, plus, like my wife she has a high risk of losing that leg above the knee. It is one thing when this happens to a woman who has lived a very good life and is about to see her first grand-daughter... it is quite another thing for a 12 year old.

Why didn't deceitful (self deceit?) self absorbed Simon not offer anything to Phillip?

Well, that's enough for now. As I said, this is one of the richest real life stories in all of scripture to me.

I don't know if he is in Heaven. The last we heard he was heeding Peter's rebuke and repentantly was asking Peter to pray for him.

If I get to meet him one day, I plan to hug his neck and tell him of the hope his failure and reaction to rebuke had on me.


Last edited by Bro Bob on 8/12/18 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post Carolyn Smith
Bro Bob wrote:
This story is powerful to me.

I just completed a series in our SS class of the parables of Christ. But this was not a parable. It was the real thing with real people and speaks to me on so many levels.

Unlike a parable which contains a core meaning but not always a picture that you can draw every possible correlation from, this one actually is a life example that truly settles for me some questions that good people have of a doctrinal nature.

Calvinists will say that he wasn't "truly" saved in the first place. But a plain reading of the text says otherwise. And Peter's cure for his problem did not include instruction to truly repent this time and do his first works over. Phillip, the 2nd deacon chosen by his church family is the evangelist. This tells us that Phillip was spirit filled. And his sermon was powerful, and wherever he went folks were saved and folks were healed, and something I have never witnessed, demons were cast out of people. But for some reason that I can't explain, folks were not being spirit filled. This is a big problem for those who say you get it all when you get saved. Who knows how long it took for the news of this revival to reach back to Jerusalem and for them to send Peter and John to them?

Simon meanwhile had every reason to hate the arrival of this new message. But he didn't. He believed, as the others did, and he followed Christ's example in water baptism as his first act of obedience. Never again are we told of his practicing his magic.

And this next thing stands out to me: Though he marveled as he followed Phillip, he never offered Phillip any money to share with him the powers that Phillip was performing.

Why not? (I don't know.) Oh what I would be willing to pay for the power that Phillip was applying! I have a friend who is now home and paralyzed from the waste down from a small plane crash. If I had such power, I would be on my way to Ohio to lay hands on him.

We have been praying in our class for a young girl (12 y.o.) who has cancer in her knee. She is at all the risks of cancer, plus, like my wife she has a high risk of losing that leg above the knee. It is one thing when this happens to a woman who has lived a very good life and is about to see her first grand-daughter... it is quite another thing for a 12 year old.

Why didn't deceitful (self deceit?) self absorbed Simon not offer anything to Phillip?

Well, that's enough for now. As I said, this is one of the richest real life stories in all of scripture to me.

I don't know if he is in Heaven. The last we heard he was heeding Peter's rebuke and repentantly was asking Peter to pray for him.

If I get to meet him one day, I plan to hug his neck and tell him of the hope his failure and reaction to rebuke had on me.


Good stuff! I think I may go back & study this again! Thanks for sharing, Bro. Bob, and great to see you posting!
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8/12/18 7:12 pm


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Post Bro Bob
I haven't even mentioned Philip's daughters, Carolyn. Because Phillip gets less attention than he ought to (in my opinion), a lot of people who actually study the Bible never make the connection.

Acts 21

BB
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8/12/18 8:23 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I believe he never was saved to begin with, and I’m just about as far from being a Calvinist as can be.

Simon the Sorcerer might have repented later, but the text doesn’t reveal if he did. Peter told him directly that his heart was not right in the sight of God, that he was wicked, that he needed to repent, and that he was still in the bond of iniquity, enslaved to sin. A heart right in the sight of God is a condition of salvation. There is no salvation without a heart that has been made right with God. A true Christian is set free from slavery to sin.

In Acts 8:24, Simon did not repent of his sin. Like King Saul of old, Simon only asked that the consequences of his sin not come upon him. To repent is to change one’s heart and mind about sin, not merely to wish to avoid the consequences of one’s sins.

Like I said, Simon may have repented later, but the passage does not indicate that he ever bore fruit in keeping with repentance.
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8/12/18 10:43 pm


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Post Bro Bob
It is possible that your understanding is correct, and I always value your opinion QW.

It is also possible that v 13 was a true statement.
Quote:
13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
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Post Bro Bob
note: These were some of the questions I had about this story during my study of it.

SIMON
(the ex-sorcerer)
Acts 8: 9-24

1) It takes less than 2 minutes to read Simon's entire story. How long did it actually take? (Acts 8)
2) What had just happened in Jerusalem? (Acts 7)
3) Who was Phillip? (Stephen, Phillip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenus, Nicolus, Acts 6)
4) Was Phillip Spirit filled? So why were people not being Spirit filled under his ministry?
5) Do you receive the Holy Spirit when you are saved? (be careful)
6) Who was Simon?
7) Was Simon "truly" saved? Were the others? Was Peter "truly" saved before he denied Christ? If a Christian sins, does that mean he was not "truly" saved? How does one know whether he is "truly" saved?
8.) What does an evangelist do?
9) Did Peter violate "Judge not..."? (v20-23)
10) Simon's sin. What law or commandment did he break? How was he supposed to know?
11) Why did he Believe, be baptized, and follow in amazement, yet never offer Phillip money?
12) Why did he offer Peter money for HIS gifts?
13) Why were Phillip's and Peter's gifts different?
14) Leave some parts out, leave out Simon's sin... how does this change the story?
16) Leave out V 13. (Many do.)
17) Leave out v 24. (Many do.)

***********************

* Q) What is the purpose of salvation? What is required to be saved?
* Q) What is the purpose of water baptism? What is required to be eligible for it?
* Q) What is the purpose of Holy Spirit Baptism? What is required to be a candidate for it?
* Q) What is the purpose of REPENTANCE? Of whom is it required?
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8/20/18 9:00 am


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Post Some thoughts... Aaron Scott
Bro Bob wrote:
This story is powerful to me.

I just completed a series in our SS class of the parables of Christ. But this was not a parable. It was the real thing with real people and speaks to me on so many levels.

Unlike a parable which contains a core meaning but not always a picture that you can draw every possible correlation from, this one actually is a life example that truly settles for me some questions that good people have of a doctrinal nature.

Calvinists will say that he wasn't "truly" saved in the first place. But a plain reading of the text says otherwise. And Peter's cure for his problem did not include instruction to truly repent this time and do his first works over. Phillip, the 2nd deacon chosen by his church family is the evangelist. Being the 2nd deacon chosen tells us that Phillip was spirit filled. And his sermon was powerful, and wherever he went folks were saved and folks were healed, and something I have never witnessed, demons were cast out of people. But for some reason that I can't explain, folks were not being spirit filled. This is a big problem for those who say you get it all when you get saved. Who knows how long it took for the news of this revival to reach back to Jerusalem and for them to send Peter and John to them?

Simon meanwhile had every reason to hate the arrival of this new message. But he didn't. He believed, as the others did, and he followed Christ's example in water baptism as his first act of obedience. Never again are we told of his practicing his magic.

And this next thing stands out to me: Though he marveled as he followed Phillip, he never offered Phillip any money to share with him the powers that Phillip was performing.

Why not? (I don't know.) Oh what I would be willing to pay for the power that Phillip was applying! I have a friend who is now home and paralyzed from the waist down from a small plane crash. If I had such power, I would be on my way to Ohio to lay hands on him.

We have been praying in our class for a young girl (12 y.o.) who has cancer in her knee. She is at all the risks of cancer, plus, like my wife she has a high risk of losing that leg above the knee. It is one thing when this happens to a woman who has lived a very good life and is about to see her first grand-daughter... it is quite another thing for a 12 year old.

Why didn't deceitful (self deceit?) self absorbed Simon not offer anything to Phillip?

Well, that's enough for now. As I said, this is one of the richest real life stories in all of scripture to me.

I don't know if he is in Heaven. The last we heard he was heeding Peter's rebuke and repentantly was asking Peter to pray for him.

If I get to meet him one day, I plan to hug his neck and tell him of the hope his failure and reaction to rebuke had on me.




Yes, I believe Simon was clearly saved. It says as much in the text.

But as you point out, Bro. Bob, why wasn't Simon offering to pay Phillip? I think there is a wonderful truth here. Simon apparently didn't offer to pay for the power to perform miracles, but he was willing to pay for the anointing to lay hands on people and them receive the Holy Ghost!

That makes me think that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was seen as a magnitude above miracles. Or maybe Simon realized that it was the baptism of the Holy Ghost that made all the rest possible.

In any case, when Peter confronted Simon, it seems clear that Simon humbled himself.

Of course, neither side can make a doctrine out of the matter, since we don't have the clear statement of scripture in this case, but that is my opinion of the matter.
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Post diakoneo
Bro Bob wrote:
note: These were some of the questions I had about this story during my study of it.

SIMON
(the ex-sorcerer)
Acts 8: 9-24

1) It takes less than 2 minutes to read Simon's entire story. How long did it actually take? (Acts 8)
2) What had just happened in Jerusalem? (Acts 7)
3) Who was Phillip? (Stephen, Phillip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenus, Nicolus, Acts 6)
4) Was Phillip Spirit filled? So why were people not being Spirit filled under his ministry?
5) Do you receive the Holy Spirit when you are saved? (be careful)
6) Who was Simon?
7) Was Simon "truly" saved? Were the others? Was Peter "truly" saved before he denied Christ? If a Christian sins, does that mean he was not "truly" saved? How does one know whether he is "truly" saved?
8.) What does an evangelist do?
9) Did Peter violate "Judge not..."? (v20-23)
10) Simon's sin. What law or commandment did he break? How was he supposed to know?
11) Why did he Believe, be baptized, and follow in amazement, yet never offer Phillip money?
12) Why did he offer Peter money for HIS gifts?
13) Why were Phillip's and Peter's gifts different?
14) Leave some parts out, leave out Simon's sin... how does this change the story?
16) Leave out V 13. (Many do.)
17) Leave out v 24. (Many do.)

***********************

* Q) What is the purpose of salvation? What is required to be saved?
* Q) What is the purpose of water baptism? What is required to be eligible for it?
* Q) What is the purpose of Holy Spirit Baptism? What is required to be a candidate for it?
* Q) What is the purpose of REPENTANCE? Of whom is it required?


You offer some good observations and questions.

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved
Repentance is required by all
The primary purpose of Baptism in the Holy Spirit is so that we will be witnesses of the Living Christ, not something that we become but a transformation to "be witnesses..."

Perhaps that is what Simon saw in those who had Peter lay hand on...
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Post Bro Bob
Quote:
Or maybe Simon realized that it was the baptism of the Holy Ghost that made all the rest possible.


And THIS is why I wanted to ask this here. I had not considered this. Although I don't think the text says Peter and John were also healing people at this time, but at least Peter had that in his resume, and like Simon's past, this would have been generally known.


Thanks,
BB
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8/21/18 10:16 am


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Post Cojak
Very interesting read and discussion BB. I am just sitting on the sidelines taking it in. I lean toward 'he made it in', I guess that is how I try to look at most folk here on earth at their death though. Smile
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Agree with Cojak. I like this discussion. I had never really studied it before now...and even now - I am just taking in others research. Thank you.
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