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 Carolyn- intimate knowledge? |
aprilmay2.0 |
Let’s leave intimacy out of this. For your sake and mine.
Here’s how the process used to work: you build a church up to about 300-350 and the next level of pay for you is an overseer job. So you trade your church in for a mid-level state and a retiring overseer goes to your church.
Then we got more people wanting to go to state work than we had spots. Especially when overseers were taking state councils to NYC for Christmas. Everybody wanted to be in state work because the pay was good and the accountability was low. So...
Backs started getting scratched. And YD’s started working their way up but one problem was that by the time a YD worked his way up from missions states to the big 6,(FL,NGA,SGA,TN,SC,AL,) he had been in so long that he didn’t have enough pastoral experience to leave the system and go pastor so they were now competing for the same jobs as the 300-350 pastors to become overseers.
So... the GA started putting term limits on overseers (who’s idea do you think that was? Can you say job security?) and they basically ensured employment for system guys since nobody ever gets fired from overseer jobs they simply get transferred (see AL to ENC )
But still we have more employees (YD and AB’s) than we do spots and actually our spots are shrinking. So... positions get created and positions get sequesterd. And guys who were buddies years ago but don’t have a spot, go to a side job with the promise of a “good state†when it opens at assembly. (See FL to General Overseer asst or see Publishing House to AL)
Basically you keep the right people happy and you get a job and then you don’t piss off the wrong people and you keep a job and if you’re handing out the jobs you try to gauge who will have the most votes for you when your term limit is up and try to keep them happy.
That’s how overseers and your directors get picked.
That and prayer. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 165
6/23/18 7:07 pm
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| Re: Carolyn- intimate knowledge? |
FLRon |
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | Let’s leave intimacy out of this. For your sake and mine.
Here’s how the process used to work: you build a church up to about 300-350 and the next level of pay for you is an overseer job. So you trade your church in for a mid-level state and a retiring overseer goes to your church.
Then we got more people wanting to go to state work than we had spots. Especially when overseers were taking state councils to NYC for Christmas. Everybody wanted to be in state work because the pay was good and the accountability was low. So...
Backs started getting scratched. And YD’s started working their way up but one problem was that by the time a YD worked his way up from missions states to the big 6,(FL,NGA,SGA,TN,SC,AL,) he had been in so long that he didn’t have enough pastoral experience to leave the system and go pastor so they were now competing for the same jobs as the 300-350 pastors to become overseers.
So... the GA started putting term limits on overseers (who’s idea do you think that was? Can you say job security?) and they basically ensured employment for system guys since nobody ever gets fired from overseer jobs they simply get transferred (see AL to ENC )
But still we have more employees (YD and AB’s) than we do spots and actually our spots are shrinking. So... positions get created and positions get sequesterd. And guys who were buddies years ago but don’t have a spot, go to a side job with the promise of a “good state†when it opens at assembly. (See FL to General Overseer asst or see Publishing House to AL)
Basically you keep the right people happy and you get a job and then you don’t piss off the wrong people and you keep a job and if you’re handing out the jobs you try to gauge who will have the most votes for you when your term limit is up and try to keep them happy.
That’s how overseers and your directors get picked.
That and prayer. |
Sadly, there was a time when a lot of prayer went into these decisions. I remember actually going to prayer meeting and a bunch of us praying that God would send us the right person for our church. I don’t know if that happens much at all today. A friend of mine said the AB showed up at his church with their new pastor, a man none of them had ever heard of before!
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 769
6/23/18 7:28 pm
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| Re: Carolyn- intimate knowledge? |
skinnybishop |
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | Let’s leave intimacy out of this. For your sake and mine.
Here’s how the process used to work: you build a church up to about 300-350 and the next level of pay for you is an overseer job. So you trade your church in for a mid-level state and a retiring overseer goes to your church.
Then we got more people wanting to go to state work than we had spots. Especially when overseers were taking state councils to NYC for Christmas. Everybody wanted to be in state work because the pay was good and the accountability was low. So...
Backs started getting scratched. And YD’s started working their way up but one problem was that by the time a YD worked his way up from missions states to the big 6,(FL,NGA,SGA,TN,SC,AL,) he had been in so long that he didn’t have enough pastoral experience to leave the system and go pastor so they were now competing for the same jobs as the 300-350 pastors to become overseers.
So... the GA started putting term limits on overseers (who’s idea do you think that was? Can you say job security?) and they basically ensured employment for system guys since nobody ever gets fired from overseer jobs they simply get transferred (see AL to ENC )
But still we have more employees (YD and AB’s) than we do spots and actually our spots are shrinking. So... positions get created and positions get sequesterd. And guys who were buddies years ago but don’t have a spot, go to a side job with the promise of a “good state†when it opens at assembly. (See FL to General Overseer asst or see Publishing House to AL)
Basically you keep the right people happy and you get a job and then you don’t piss off the wrong people and you keep a job and if you’re handing out the jobs you try to gauge who will have the most votes for you when your term limit is up and try to keep them happy.
That’s how overseers and your directors get picked.
That and prayer. |
So....the first step is to pastor a church of 300-350. Lol. I'm almost halfway there.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
6/23/18 8:37 pm
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| Re: Carolyn- intimate knowledge? |
Carolyn Smith |
| aprilmay2.0 wrote: | Let’s leave intimacy out of this. For your sake and mine.
Here’s how the process used to work: you build a church up to about 300-350 and the next level of pay for you is an overseer job. So you trade your church in for a mid-level state and a retiring overseer goes to your church.
Then we got more people wanting to go to state work than we had spots. Especially when overseers were taking state councils to NYC for Christmas. Everybody wanted to be in state work because the pay was good and the accountability was low. So...
Backs started getting scratched. And YD’s started working their way up but one problem was that by the time a YD worked his way up from missions states to the big 6,(FL,NGA,SGA,TN,SC,AL,) he had been in so long that he didn’t have enough pastoral experience to leave the system and go pastor so they were now competing for the same jobs as the 300-350 pastors to become overseers.
So... the GA started putting term limits on overseers (who’s idea do you think that was? Can you say job security?) and they basically ensured employment for system guys since nobody ever gets fired from overseer jobs they simply get transferred (see AL to ENC )
But still we have more employees (YD and AB’s) than we do spots and actually our spots are shrinking. So... positions get created and positions get sequesterd. And guys who were buddies years ago but don’t have a spot, go to a side job with the promise of a “good state†when it opens at assembly. (See FL to General Overseer asst or see Publishing House to AL)
Basically you keep the right people happy and you get a job and then you don’t piss off the wrong people and you keep a job and if you’re handing out the jobs you try to gauge who will have the most votes for you when your term limit is up and try to keep them happy.
That’s how overseers and your directors get picked.
That and prayer. |
Trust me, I do not want any more intimate knowledge than this from you, Aprilmay. I just meant the process, not the details. I pretty much hate church politics and this sounds kinda sleazy.
BTW, you got that overseer transfer backwards. It was ENC to AL.
Sounds like we need way more prayer than is going on.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
6/23/18 8:42 pm
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Hill-billy |
_________________
“Well, I'm the General Overseer, I can do whatever I want..." Alabama campmeeting 2018 |
Member
Posts: 27
6/24/18 12:10 am
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Hill-billy |
I think the motion should be adapted to deal with Nepotism. Would Aprilmay kindly share how YD’s are selected.
_________________
“Well, I'm the General Overseer, I can do whatever I want..." Alabama campmeeting 2018 |
Member
Posts: 27
7/4/18 3:30 pm
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| If I Make It, I will vote Against This one |
mytwocents |
| Quote: | 6. Have served as the senior/lead pastor of a local church congregation for a minimum of five years or after having been elected to an international position.
Any exceptions can be made by the International
Executive Committee |
Three Reasons for my opposition:
1) It makes no sense! We say let's tell the IEC that ABs must have 5 years Sr. Pastor's experience BUT we also allow the IEC authority to make exceptions (so why are we putting this in the minutes? Trump would say "bad law"
2) It has no Biblical basis or authority. All other qualifications ref scripture, this does not. We seem to be drifting to the preferences and fears of men.
3) It is far to restrictive in defining a pathway to leadership. In the end, I want the best candidate possible. Maybe they have 5 years experience as Sr. Pastor, maybe they don't. But I don't want to eliminate someone simply because the path God has led them on didn't include the Sr. Pastorate.
The Bible establishes five offices in the church: Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher. WE are saying that only those who follow a small subdivision of one office are qualified to lead.
Sorry evangelists, God may have called, equipped, and empowered but you can't advance in leadership in the COG. And the same is true for Associate Pastors, Executive Pastors, Youth Pastors, Children;s Pastors, Education Pastors, etc. etc. etc.
Thanks Eddie, I also had thought this would eliminate your father in law.
ALSO, if your brother in law, Paul Conn (who I believe is the greatest pure leader in our denomination) said I'd like to share my gifts of leadership with the General Church as an AB, we would say NO, SORRY, THE MINUTES WON'T LET US!
THis is just dumb, IMHO. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 813
7/4/18 8:20 pm
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MrSippi |
I have seen an excellent discussion about this on the Excellent Pastor Facebook page. A pastor who has posted on this page made and excellent post in opposition of the motion. I will allow him to post it here, if he chooses. However, I am definitely in opposition to it. There are several reasons.
The motion is a bad motion all around. The Executive Committee can already appoint all pastors if they choose. Our minutes state that an Ordained Bishop is eligible to serve in any position in the Church of God, yet this motion would make that statement void. If this motion passed, one could serve as the General Overseer, but could not serve as a state overseer.
Additionally, someone who pastored a church of 10 people for 5 years would be eligible to serve as an overseer, but 8 of our current overseers and both our International Director and Assistant Director of Youth would not be eligible. Someone who had given their life as an effective missionary would not be eligible. Some would say that being elected to the council of 18 would make them eligible because of the wording of the motion. What does being elected to the council have anything at all to do it? Just because they win a popularity vote, they are eligible?
This is just a really bad motion all around. Amendments would only complicate it further. It just needs to fail. If this motion had been in place, Ray H Hughes, Charles Conn, J David Stephens, John D Childers, Don Walker, Lamar Vest, Terry Hart, Tom Madden, David Blair, and numerous more of our great leaders would not have been eligible to serve as a state overseer! Think about the great leaders in our future that we are shutting out from being able to lead! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 156
7/4/18 8:38 pm
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Hill-billy |
Agreed I hate the motion and how it is worded concerns me. But, we do need a more open process of selecting our officals. It is getting worse than Congress. The processes needs accountability and openness.
_________________
“Well, I'm the General Overseer, I can do whatever I want..." Alabama campmeeting 2018 |
Member
Posts: 27
7/4/18 9:24 pm
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