 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 |
Carolyn Smith |
I don't think the woman is demeaned if the husband is the head, but I do think it is used a lot to control women in an unscriptural way. Abuse isn't just physical, as we've mentioned. There are a lot of "Christian" marriages in which sarcasm, emotional manipulation, and blatant disrespect are a part of every day life. Women of my generation were taught to submit, and in some cases, it works great. But many women have been abused both physically & emotionally trying to follow that. I daresay many have died. I've always told women who were being abused to leave if their lives were in danger. God can heal your marriage, but He can't do anything if you're dead.
Forgive me, but our society teaches men that it's OK to be selfish and put yourself first. I know that isn't always the case, and I'm sure some of you fine gentlemen here love your wife as Christ loves the Church and think of her first and put her desires first. But it's not something I've seen in many marriages. It takes a lot of grace to submit to someone that's acting like a jerk.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5909
11/2/15 6:45 am
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| Carolyn... |
Aaron Scott |
I would hope that Christian husband would seek to dominate or selfishly control their wife. That would be wrong.
But the intent of the Bible is not to enable abuse, of course, but rather to create order and harmony. As you know, some folks will twist scripture to their own destruction (and the destruction of a home).
A man has no more right to use those verses to dominate...than a woman has the right to try to escape it by twisting the notion of there being no male or female in the kingdom.
I like your attitude. A woman is not demeaned if the man is the head. No more than I am demeaned if my manager is a woman. As long as I am treated with respect, I have no problem doing my best for my boss, etc. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/2/15 8:43 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Carolyn... |
Dave Dorsey |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | As long as I am treated with respect, I have no problem doing my best for my boss, etc. |
Ah, so your submission is conditional upon your superior first respecting you and treating you right? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
11/2/15 8:57 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
bonnie knox |
Link, I'm done with your misspelling my name without my calling it to your attention. It's "Bonnie."
I think I'm done with this thread for now. I don't feel I'm in a dialogue. I feel I'm being talked past. I'm weary of being accused of posturing, making up definitions, accused of having my interpretation of the scripture dictated by secular culture, by American culture, ad nauseam. I'm tired of the insinuations that I don't think wives should submit (which I've never claimed). I'm tired of innuendo that I wouldn't choose to preserve an abusive marriage if the abuse could be ended. I've been married for 30 years to the only man I've ever loved, and I personally take a high view of the institution of marriage.
Aaron, for now I will agree to disagree, and I will say I appreciate the gracious way you have agreed to disagree on more than one occasion.
Carolyn, you and I probably don't see eye to eye on all of this, but, as Tom would say, "functionally" we are probably on the same page. I find you have a lot of "real life" wisdom to impart. "Real life" wisdom should NOT BE UNDERESTIMATED. (He that hath an ear let him hear!)
For clarity, though I'm most likely done with this thread, I'm not done with the subject. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
11/2/15 9:03 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
Actscelerate will not die until ever single sister is 100% submissive to her OWN husband. Ats it fellers, so in at case, Acts ain't never gonna die.........  |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/2/15 9:15 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Dave, NO. |
Aaron Scott |
I still obey my boss even if I'm not delighted about it.
Besides, WHAT IT THE WORLD ARE YOU THINKING??? Do you suppose that a women can ignore the scriptures (or that a man can ignore the scriptures) just because he or she isn't "feeling it," or otherwise disagrees?
That's a recipe for disaster, I would think. You were arguing, were you not, that a woman didn't have to be submissive unless her husband FIRST respected her, treated her right, etc., right?  |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/2/15 9:40 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
UncleJD |
I think we all agree that wives should submit to their husbands, and that husbands should love their wives. What does that look like? That's the original question I believe. This whole idea of forcing it is a bit strange, especially since the Muslims would all agree with it. Let's turn the tables, how does a wife enforce her husband's love and giving of himself for her? Any 1,2,3 steps for that?
1. Tell him that its time to fast from sex for a few days (you know the biblical way)
2. Let the dog go in his favorite chair?
3. clog up the plumbing on that special day he had planned for fishing? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
11/2/15 10:38 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Dave, NO. |
Dave Dorsey |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | You were arguing, were you not, that a woman didn't have to be submissive unless her husband FIRST respected her, treated her right, etc., right? |
...no, I was not. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
11/2/15 11:59 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
| bonnie knox wrote: | You are showing your heart in this statement.
| Quote: | | When it comes to this topic, use of the word 'equality' is rather meaningless. |
Does the fact that the male "ruling" the woman was a result of the Fall mean nothing to you? |
That doesn't really relate much to what you quoted from me, above. The husband's role has to do with man being made first in Paul's writings, not just the fall.
The increase in women's pain in child bearing came after the fall in the same passage. Would you have me believe that Christian women are lying to us men folk about how bad having a baby hurts?
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
11/2/15 1:37 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Link, I'm done with your misspelling my name without my calling it to your attention. It's "Bonnie."
I think I'm done with this thread for now. I don't feel I'm in a dialogue. I feel I'm being talked past. I'm weary of being accused of posturing, making up definitions, accused of having my interpretation of the scripture dictated by secular culture, by American culture, ad nauseam. I'm tired of the insinuations that I don't think wives should submit (which I've never claimed). |
Well, Bonnie, I'm sorry I misspelled your name. I didn't mean to. I might have actually typed it right. I use internet explorer, and sometimes I'll type several letters and the program will hang up and leave out a few letters. I get a white screen instead of my black background setting on chrome and I don't want to stare at a light bulb, so I don't use that. And I decided to stop using firefox when they decided not to hire that guy over gay issues. So I might have spelled your name right and not caught the error when it came on the screen. Anyway, I apologize.
The comments about the word 'wus' did seem like a low blow to me, that some proposed etymology of the word that I was unaware of was supposedly revealing my heart. I didn't care for that comment too much myself.
I think our main area of disagreement is over whether submission should be taught in church. I see a theological movement against what the Bible says about wives submitting to husbands, and a secular culture that actively teaches against it. Carolyn said that she was taught submission. But I think it is safe to say that women in Gen X and Gen Y were actively taught against it, at least as far as secular culture is concerned. I do think a number of the egalitarian positions are just an attempt to push contemporary thought into scripture. Reading the Bible through the lens of American political philosophy is problematic, too. Some of my comments are aimed at that whole perspective, not only yourself. So I do believe the topic needs to be taught on.
Anyway, I apologize if I have misunderstood or misrepresented your views in any way.
_________________
Link
Last edited by Link on 11/2/15 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
11/2/15 1:45 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
I notice the conversation has focused on extremes of spousal behavior.
On the one hand we are talking about how a husband is to approach the submission issue if his wife publically insults him and undermines his call to ministry.
On the other hand, there are posts about wives submitting to husbands who are abusive or who use the submission topic to be selfish.
If we are going to consider case studies or scenarios, why not discuss something we might agree on. Let's say there is a church-going couple that loves Jesus. The husband is really trying to love his wife like Christ loves the church. The wife is really trying to love his wife like Christ loved the church. What does that submission look like?
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
11/2/15 1:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Carolyn.... |
Aaron Scott |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Here is one woman's opinion on submission.
Yes, it's Biblical. But in order for submission to be effective, it must be a choice. If it's not, it becomes bondage...control and manipulation, no matter who is doing it.
I was just reading some old threads today and saw this. This is a brilliant point you make. I wonder if this is not the reason a woman is instructed by God to submit? Since a woman is just as smart, etc., as a man, she must voluntarily submit, since otherwise it is not submission...but subjugation.
If I choose to submit my will to the will of my husband or any other authority figure, then it becomes a pleasing sacrifice to the Lord. If I submit because I have to, not because I desire to, it creates anger and resentment.
If you want your wife to submit, try showing her respect and love. You reap what you sow. If you want her to respect you, treat her with respect. Don't treat her like a child or like she's stupid. Treat her like an adult worthy of love. Grounding your wife? Not likely (or wise.) If there are problems that need addressing, face them as two adults working towards a solution.
I have always contended that if a man would truly love his wife as Christ loved the Church, she would have no problem at all submitting to him. |
|
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
4/11/18 6:52 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
UncleJD |
| UncleJD wrote: | I think we all agree that wives should submit to their husbands, and that husbands should love their wives. What does that look like? That's the original question I believe. This whole idea of forcing it is a bit strange, especially since the Muslims would all agree with it. Let's turn the tables, how does a wife enforce her husband's love and giving of himself for her? Any 1,2,3 steps for that?
1. Tell him that its time to fast from sex for a few days (you know the biblical way)
2. Let the dog go in his favorite chair?
3. clog up the plumbing on that special day he had planned for fishing? |
LOL, thanks for bringing up a zombie thread Aaron so I can read some of my genius commentary  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
4/12/18 8:52 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
