| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Losing the Mission |
cogcia |
Losing the Mission
Overhead expenses of non-profits and denominations is causing a loss of respect. As non-profits grow there is always a danger that expenses overtakes the Vision of the cause. Many American world mission organization spend the bulk of their funds on staff and expenses stateside and only designated funds make it to the field. Many large benevolent organizations spend as much as 80% on overhead. Many denominations send most of their funds on ever growing administration with very little going to the mission of the church.
Meeting Administration salaries offer become more the goal of organization than the original Mission.
I remember the day our state was concerned about building churches, planting churches and helping hurting ministers. Now our focus is keeping the state office open. Our bi-vocational pastors are told their churches need to send more so huge administration salaries can continue to be paid. We don’t begrudge administrations. We just feel it has become our new mission. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
3/14/18 1:41 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| Re: Losing the Mission |
Travis Johnson |
| cogcia wrote: | Losing the Mission
Overhead expenses of non-profits and denominations is causing a loss of respect. As non-profits grow there is always a danger that expenses overtakes the Vision of the cause. Many American world mission organization spend the bulk of their funds on staff and expenses stateside and only designated funds make it to the field. Many large benevolent organizations spend as much as 80% on overhead. Many denominations send most of their funds on ever growing administration with very little going to the mission of the church.
Meeting Administration salaries offer become more the goal of organization than the original Mission.
I remember the day our state was concerned about building churches, planting churches and helping hurting ministers. Now our focus is keeping the state office open. Our bi-vocational pastors are told their churches need to send more so huge administration salaries can continue to be paid. We don’t begrudge administrations. We just feel it has become our new mission. |
These are very good words. We do not have a right to exist. We have a mission to advance. At the point where our existence or self-protection trumps the mission, we cross a line that shouldn’t be crossed.
I’ve been bi-vocational in ministry. What you say captures a legitimate sense. But, it is also true for churches of all sizes. The local church should be very heavily influencing the direction of our fellowship. We should be as effective as possible in mission, globally and in our own communities. It’s all mission. And, when our expenditures are not serving mission well, we should bring attention to those areas to bring health and highest possible effectiveness. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7821
3/14/18 2:32 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Losing the Mission |
Cojak |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | cogcia wrote: | Losing the Mission
Overhead expenses of non-profits and denominations is causing a loss of respect. As non-profits grow there is always a danger that expenses overtakes the Vision of the cause. Many American world mission organization spend the bulk of their funds on staff and expenses stateside and only designated funds make it to the field. Many large benevolent organizations spend as much as 80% on overhead. Many denominations send most of their funds on ever growing administration with very little going to the mission of the church.
Meeting Administration salaries offer become more the goal of organization than the original Mission.
I remember the day our state was concerned about building churches, planting churches and helping hurting ministers. Now our focus is keeping the state office open. Our bi-vocational pastors are told their churches need to send more so huge administration salaries can continue to be paid. We don’t begrudge administrations. We just feel it has become our new mission. |
These are very good words. We do not have a right to exist. We have a mission to advance. At the point where our existence or self-protection trumps the mission, we cross a line that shouldn’t be crossed.
I’ve been bi-vocational in ministry. What you say captures a legitimate sense. But, it is also true for churches of all sizes. The local church should be very heavily influencing the direction of our fellowship. We should be as effective as possible in mission, globally and in our own communities. It’s all mission. And, when our expenditures are not serving mission well, we should bring attention to those areas to bring health and highest possible effectiveness. |
Well said! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
3/15/18 10:16 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Mission |
cogcia |
| Smaller states are going to have to be either combined or do a smaller pay package or we will never have resources to do ministry. I’m not sure why the executive committee is not addressing this. Maybe they don’t understand the mess the smaller states are in. Discouragement is setting in due to a loss of ability to focus of mission. Mission has to be more than administration. Even the sell of properties are going to state budget and has been for years. How do we turn this around? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
3/15/18 2:22 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Home churches |
Mark Ledbetter |
have very low overhead, can be more mission focused, make better disciples (as opposed to church members), along with other benefits as have approximately 20 million christians who have dropped out of church and channeled their energy and resources in viable evangelistic and community service oriented outreach.
But such an idea won't fly in an institutional-minded, self-preserving (but lose you own soul) church.
_________________
God-Honoring
Christ-Centered
Bible-Based
Spirit-Led
(This is how I want to be) |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2109
3/15/18 9:04 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Mission |
Dow Moses |
Any organization has to constantly Gaurd against losing the mission in the Bureaucracy. Same with the local church. People are less and less about supporting a system unless the system really builds the organization to fulliful the mission.
_________________
DOW MOSES |
Friendly Face
Posts: 100
3/20/18 2:54 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Planting and revitalizing |
cogcia |
| Do you think the push for planting and revitalizing is about the harvest or more about a fear of the system collapsing? Not trying to be critical but we have seen AB’s push planting to get promotion. Even when 26 of 32 plants had less than 8 people. And most plants closed a year after the AB left because they were poorly done. Got upset hearing the great job the AB had done planting so many churches. No he just damaged churches and left discouraged planters. Planting most be done and must be done correctly and for the right reason. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
3/21/18 3:06 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Do Pastors push the misison? |
chestnut ridge |
If administrative cost are 80% to 85% of the monthly income, can the church be missional?
Administrative Cost under control?
Pastor's salary inflated because off of a old church roll?
Salaries (minister of music, youth, children and administrative pastor) taking the correct % of the church's monthly income?
What % is put into the community events and discipleship? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1722
3/21/18 4:38 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Mission |
Link |
| cogcia wrote: | | Smaller states are going to have to be either combined or do a smaller pay package or we will never have resources to do ministry. I’m not sure why the executive committee is not addressing this. Maybe they don’t understand the mess the smaller states are in. Discouragement is setting in due to a loss of ability to focus of mission. Mission has to be more than administration. Even the sell of properties are going to state budget and has been for years. How do we turn this around? |
I'm not saying you are wrong, but don't smaller states tend to be geographically huuuuuuuuuuuge? State land area tends to go up as you go west in the United States, and a lot of those states have relatively low populations considering their land area until you get near the west coast.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/22/18 1:13 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Combining |
cogcia |
| Link you are correct, but if salary and experiences are 272K and TOT income is 200k what is a state suppose to do. No ability to do church planting or revitalization if administration is already more than our income. Our mission has to be more than supporting a state office. Does anyone in Cleveland even understand the reality of smaller states. [/quote] |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
3/22/18 11:58 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Combining |
SouthFloridaman |
| cogcia wrote: | | Link you are correct, but if salary and experiences are 272K and TOT income is 200k what is a state suppose to do. No ability to do church planting or revitalization if administration is already more than our income. Our mission has to be more than supporting a state office. Does anyone in Cleveland even understand the reality of smaller states. |
[/quote]
Wow. This is eye opening. Expense is 272K and TOT income is 200k. I think the most logical answer to this is have pastors to serve double duty as overseers. Other organizations like ag do this very well. Yes there would be a reduction in duty for overseer but there would also be an increase in what states can do. State youth directors are already doing this. That would provide a chance for local leadership and end this political musical chairs of moving folks. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 358
3/29/18 2:33 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Something has to change |
cogcia |
| We have several pastors that could lead with vision, but we never have had an AB from this area. We get men for a few years that tell us how much they love us that moves soon and we never hear from them again. We have a broken system that no one is willing to address. We’ve always done it this way so it must be the right way even if it is killing us. The System is the Mission. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
3/30/18 7:46 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Something has to change |
SouthFloridaman |
| cogcia wrote: | | We have several pastors that could lead with vision, but we never have had an AB from this area. We get men for a few years that tell us how much they love us that moves soon and we never hear from them again. We have a broken system that no one is willing to address. We’ve always done it this way so it must be the right way even if it is killing us. The System is the Mission. |
We have several really great leaders that do amazing jobs on the state and international level. But I feel we are missing the mark not allowing some leadership from successful local ministers. Some ownership/buy in is needed in order to fix the situation. It is odd when one comes from a faraway place and is then placed in a state alien to them. I feel that the answer could come by allowing local state overseer elections, but then on the other hand a great leader could be coming down the pipe and if an election would stifle much needed new visions and thinking I would not want to hinder that. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 358
3/30/18 12:58 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
As one who pastors in a mission state, I must say that the idea of merging with another huge western state (or states) is a dismal prospect. It is already a six-hour drive for us to the state office, ministers’ meetings, camp meeting, etc.
I would much prefer the idea of a local pastor serving as state overseer, but from what I have been hearing, the state youth director job is too difficult for a local pastor to do justice to both jobs. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
3/30/18 1:51 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
cogcia |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | As one who pastors in a mission state, I must say that the idea of merging with another huge western state (or states) is a dismal prospect. It is already a six-hour drive for us to the state office, ministers’ meetings, camp meeting, etc.
I would much prefer the idea of a local pastor serving as state overseer, but from what I have been hearing, the state youth director job is too difficult for a local pastor to do justice to both jobs. |
Most of the time it is the people in the system that tells us why it can’t be done without them. I’ve seen states have great youth ministries using local leadership. The AG seems to have great success with state leadership coming from the state.
My question is has manitaining our current system become our mission at the cost of the real mission? Can you even ask the question does the COG need to change without sounding anti COG? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
3/30/18 9:44 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Mission |
Dow Moses |
I watched for years as our state lost its ability to do anything but support the structure. We would always be forced to be reactive, only changing to late. You can only do what is approved by the general assembly or executive committee. It took us 6-8 years to get approval for one change. It costed us our ability to do anything constructive. Even when state leadership was trying to be proactive we were controlled by the system. I gave up trying after 30 years. Watching some of the greatest pastors in the world not have a voice and then they become responsible to pay for the mess or sell assets to pay for the mess. It is my prayer that the COG will one day value the voice of its pastors again and make some changes restoring the ability to have a real Mission. Even after leaving the COG I still love It and want to see it restore Mission, but I personally believe it will only happen if there is a change in the system that puts some power back at state and local level.
_________________
DOW MOSES |
Friendly Face
Posts: 100
4/3/18 7:41 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Too much Pork spending and nepotism |
MoonWalkingWithJesus |
| Missions states are seen as political stepping stones for the family and friends of those in the top level positions. We need 3 things to happen to fix the mess, a younger more adaptive excutive comitee open to new ideas instead of the focus of resurrecting dead and dying programs , a pastor focused council of 18 set up by region, and locally decided state overseers. I am on the fence about the locally voted state overseers because honestly there are some great overseers in the pipeline, but there has been a lot of bad 2 and the politics are just plain aweful. The Nepotism has to end it seems that leadership is more concerned with hiding family in the organization. Then I am gonna hear some hair brained excuse about how no one wanted the job. That’s a crock. Pastors out west take the most risk. The church of God is unheard of in these parts we have to think outside the box. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 141
4/3/18 1:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
