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Post Listen to this Isa 58:12
Isa 59: behold the L-rd's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, neither His ear heavy that it cannot hear

This is a quick lesson of the dangers of things that can enter into your "heart", attaching itself to something that is not correct. We will just look at this through Y'sreal, which who G-d is talking to. We can find ourselves in every story, book in the Bible if we really let G-d speak to us

Vs 2; but your iniquities have separated between you and your G-d, and your sins have hid His face from you that He will not hear. 3; for your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity, your lips has spoken lies, your tongue has murdered perverseness. 4; none calls for Justice nor any pleads for "Truth", they trust in vanity, and speak lies, they can see mischief, and bring forth iniquity

5; they hatch cockatrice eggs, and weave the spider's web, he that eats their of their eggs dies and that which is crushed breaks out into a Viper 6; their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their work, they're works are works of iniquity and the act of violence is in their hands 7; their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood, their "thoughts" are "thoughts" of iniquity(vs12) wasting and destruction are in their paths

8; the Way of Shalom, peace "they know not"(Ps 119:165; great Shalom, peace have they which love your Law, and nothing shall offend them) and there is no Judgement in their goings, they're made them "crooked paths" ( Matt 7:13-14) whosoever goes there in "shall not know" Shalom, peace (Ps 125:5; as for such as "turn aside" unto the crooked ways, the L-rd shall lead them forth with the workers of "iniquity" but Shalom, peace shall be upon Israel)

9; therefore is Judgment far from us, neither does Justice overtake us, we wait for Light but behold security, for brightness, we walk in darkness 10; we grope for the wall like the "Blind", and we grope as if we had no eyes, we "stumble" at Noonday as in the night we are in desolate places as dead men 11; we roar all like bears, and more and sore like doves, we look for Judgment, but there is none, for Salvation, but it is far off from us.

(blind vs 10, Deut 28:28; the L-rd shall smite you with Madness, "blindness", and astonishment of "heart"

12; for our transgressions are multiply before you, and our sins testify against us, for our transgressions "are with us" and as for our iniquities "we know them"(they know they r wrong) 13; in transgressing and lying against the L-rd, and departing away from our G-d, speaking oppression and Revolt, conceiving and uttering from the "heart" (Matt 16:8) words of "falsehood"

14; and Judgment is turned away backward, and Justice stands afar off, for truth is fallen in the street, and equity/right cannot enter 15; yes, Truth fails, and he that departs from evil making himself a pray, (people attack u speak Truth) and the L-rd saw it, and it did please Him that there was no Judgement( Torah, Ps 119:137; Righteous are You O L-rd, and Upright are Your Judgements)

Isa 59:9-15 = Ezek 22:26-28+vs 8; her priests have violated My Law, and that profane Mine Holy things, they have put no difference between the Holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and I've hit their eyes from My Sabbath and I am profaned among them 27; her princess in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the "prey"(Isa 59:25), to shed blood and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain 28; and her prophets have daubed them with untempered mortar, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them saying thus says the L-rd G-d, when L-rd has not spoken

See the dangers of things connecting to your "heart", u can't see the Truth, and that's with any situation in our lives. That's why we have to be careful when we hear people talk about the Bible, if they can't give you Bible Truths with no contradictions do not let that get attached to your "heart" because that's what you want.

No need for comment, I just had to get that out, something for us all to think about

Shalom
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Last edited by Isa 58:12 on 2/18/18 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad, you drive me insane, this is way too long I cannot do this from my phone. When you see it's getting long start a new thread with your points 😶. Dude, Galatians is not saying what you think it is saying about the law. Because then you run into a theological nightmare and a Bible that contradicts itself.

I'm just going to use you're theology on Gal & set it next to, oh say, Prov 3;1-2; My son, forget "not" My Law, Torah but let your heart keep My Commandments, for length of days and long life and peace shall they add.. now the brad thought; Christ redeemed us from the Law....😶, The law brings a curse not a blessing 😶😕.I...,Do you see how ridiculous that is, it doesn't work that's a big contradiction. Stop trying to add your interpretation to what G-d says, I think He knows more than you 😏


The Law that brings a curse and bondage is the law given on Mt. Sinai. That's what the next chapter says very plainly. See Gal 4. How do you explain Paul saying we must cast out Mt. Sinai and the children of bondage?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad, you drive me insane, this is way too long I cannot do this from my phone. When you see it's getting long start a new thread with your points 😶. Dude, Galatians is not saying what you think it is saying about the law. Because then you run into a theological nightmare and a Bible that contradicts itself.

I'm just going to use you're theology on Gal & set it next to, oh say, Prov 3;1-2; My son, forget "not" My Law, Torah but let your heart keep My Commandments, for length of days and long life and peace shall they add.. now the brad thought; Christ redeemed us from the Law....😶, The law brings a curse not a blessing 😶😕.I...,Do you see how ridiculous that is, it doesn't work that's a big contradiction. Stop trying to add your interpretation to what G-d says, I think He knows more than you 😏


The Law that brings a curse and bondage is the law given on Mt. Sinai. That's what the next chapter says very plainly. See Gal 4. How do you explain Paul saying we must cast out Mt. Sinai and the children of bondage?


What do you have to say about what I just showed you let's not get off the subject. I already showed you and explain to you Gal 4 in another thread. I would hate to think you're not reading what I say 😒. Don't forget brad, G-d wrote the laws / Torah and gave them to Moshe to give to the children of Y'srael... Ur not understanding Gal 4 brad, you're reading it in your theology, not going to work
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
What do you have to say about what I just showed you let's not get off the subject. I already showed you and explain to you Gal 4 in another thread.


I'll make it easy for you. 3 simple questions regarding Galatians 4:
    Are there 2 covenants?
    What covenant was given on Mt. Sinai?
    What are we commanded to do with Hagar?

Quote:
I would hate to think you're not reading what I say 😒. Don't forget brad, G-d wrote the laws / Torah and gave them to Moshe to give to the children of Y'srael...


Yes, He did. The law was "added until the seed would come" (Gal 3:19). Then the Seed came and fulfilled the law. Now we are not under law, but grace.

Quote:
Ur not understanding Gal 4 brad, you're reading it in your theology, not going to work


Answer the 3 simple questions above. Read this:

Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”


3 more questions about Romans 7:
    What Law is Paul talking about here that says "You shall not covet?"
    Are you dead to that Law?
    Have you been released from that Law?

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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
What do you have to say about what I just showed you let's not get off the subject. I already showed you and explain to you Gal 4 in another thread.


I'll make it easy for you. 3 simple questions regarding Galatians 4:
    Are there 2 covenants?
    What covenant was given on Mt. Sinai?
    What are we commanded to do with Hagar?

Quote:
I would hate to think you're not reading what I say 😒. Don't forget brad, G-d wrote the laws / Torah and gave them to Moshe to give to the children of Y'srael...


Yes, He did. The law was "added until the seed would come" (Gal 3:19). Then the Seed came and fulfilled the law. Now we are not under law, but grace.

Quote:
Ur not understanding Gal 4 brad, you're reading it in your theology, not going to work


Answer the 3 simple questions above. Read this:

Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”


3 more questions about Romans 7:
    What Law is Paul talking about here that says "You shall not covet?"
    Are you dead to that Law?
    Have you been released from that Law?


🙄Oh L-rd..... Hagar was a "work" base to receive the promise, throw it out. 1 Torah @ Sinai, 2 things came out of it, 1 is Right, 1 is not, is. Abraham came forth, 2 children came forth, 1 was Right, 1was not. It's a allegory brad, I trust you understand what that is right?

And again, you are not under the law of death, we are covered by grace 😶. Rom 7:4, again speaking of the law of death and dead works from the Law which is sin. Again, Rom 7:7 is ur key to understand Paul is upholding the Law here... Do you not see that? Just that first alone goes against everything you say

Of course brad, Paul is speaking of covet which is in the 10 Words/Commandments & ur not dead to that Law, you're dead/released from the law death if you are covetousness person, that's sin. You've been forgiven by Messiah when you repented of your sins & come to the knowledge of Messiah and now you turn from those dead works of covetousness and you don't do it no more.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
What do you have to say about what I just showed you let's not get off the subject. I already showed you and explain to you Gal 4 in another thread.


I'll make it easy for you. 3 simple questions regarding Galatians 4:
    Are there 2 covenants?
    What covenant was given on Mt. Sinai?
    What are we commanded to do with Hagar?

Quote:
I would hate to think you're not reading what I say 😒. Don't forget brad, G-d wrote the laws / Torah and gave them to Moshe to give to the children of Y'srael...


Yes, He did. The law was "added until the seed would come" (Gal 3:19). Then the Seed came and fulfilled the law. Now we are not under law, but grace.

Quote:
Ur not understanding Gal 4 brad, you're reading it in your theology, not going to work


Answer the 3 simple questions above. Read this:

Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”


3 more questions about Romans 7:
    What Law is Paul talking about here that says "You shall not covet?"
    Are you dead to that Law?
    Have you been released from that Law?


🙄Oh L-rd..... Hagar was a "work" base to receive the promise, throw it out. 1 Torah @ Sinai, 2 things came out of it, 1 is Right, 1 is not, is. Abraham came forth, 2 children came forth, 1 was Right, 1was not. It's a allegory brad, I trust you understand what that is right?

And again, you are not under the law of death, we are covered by grace 😶. Rom 7:4, again speaking of the law of death and dead works from the Law which is sin. Again, Rom 7:7 is ur key to understand Paul is upholding the Law here... Do you not see that? Just that first alone goes against everything you say

Of course brad, Paul is speaking of covet which is in the 10 Words/Commandments & ur not dead to that Law, you're dead/released from the law death if you are covetousness person, that's sin. You've been forgiven by Messiah when you repented of your sins & come to the knowledge of Messiah and now you turn from those dead works of covetousness and you don't do it no more.


We're not under the law of sin either.
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Post Isa 58:12
You said: "we are not under the law of "sin". I haven't seen that law, sin comes from breaking the law 😒. & The law wasn't made for you to sin brad, so you don't sin?

Do u sin brad, now that there's no law?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
You said: "we are not under the law of "sin". I haven't seen that law, sin comes from breaking the law 😒. & The law wasn't made for you to sin brad, so you don't sin?

Do u sin brad, now that there's no law?


Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death

Rom 4:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The Law of sin is the Law of Moses.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

The only sin that condemns people now is unbelief.
Jesus took away the sin of the world.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
You said: "we are not under the law of "sin". I haven't seen that law, sin comes from breaking the law 😒. & The law wasn't made for you to sin brad, so you don't sin?

Do u sin brad, now that there's no law?


Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death

Rom 4:20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The Law of sin is the Law of Moses.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

The only sin that condemns people now is unbelief.
Jesus took away the sin of the world.


The only sin that condemns people now unbelief? Well the demons believe in Y'shua, so there saved? & So G-d wrote a bunch of laws to bring you into sin, that's what you think? That's what you're saying twisting scripture to accommodate your belief. I can show you how I keep the law Etc through all text in the Bible with no contradictions... You might want to think about that, because you cannot

And you still have not answered my question whether believe is that the teeth keep the 10 words/Commandments. Oh wait, it's only 9 now because you believe Paul is saying you don't have to keep the Commandment to not covet. Oh wait, you probably believe that we don't have to keep the Sabbath either, now that's 8. Do you see a problem here
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
The only sin that condemns people now unbelief? Well the demons believe in Y'shua, so there saved?


What do the demons believe that makes them tremble? They believe God is against them and that they are doomed to torment. Their faith was in death - dead faith.

Mat 8:29 And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

What did Abraham and Rahab believe? They believed that God is for them and would protect and preserve them.

How did Abraham and Rahab show that they believed God was for them? Abraham believed that there was no way Isaac would not come back off the mountain with him.
Rahab believed she was safe siding with the spies.

Living faith expresses a confidence that God is for us.
Dead faith expresses the belief that God is not for me, I have to save myself, try to preserve my own life, keep my food and don't share, keep my son off the altar and turn the spies in.


Quote:
I can show you how I keep the law Etc through all text in the Bible with no contradictions... You might want to think about that, because you cannot


I would just like for you to put a passage in context when interpreting instead of adding your own interpretation or one you've been handed on a YouTube video.

Quote:
And you still have not answered my question whether believe is that the teeth keep the 10 words/Commandments. Oh wait, it's only 9 now because you believe Paul is saying you don't have to keep the Commandment to not covet. Oh wait, you probably believe that we don't have to keep the Sabbath either, now that's 8. Do you see a problem here


I've answered your question several times. I'll answer it again. NO, we don't have to keep ANY of the law of Moses as a condition of righteousness, blessing or life.

Under the new covenant, we receive righteousness, blessing and life as a free gift of His grace by faith.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
The only sin that condemns people now unbelief? Well the demons believe in Y'shua, so there saved?


What do the demons believe that makes them tremble? They believe God is against them and that they are doomed to torment. Their faith was in death - dead faith.

Mat 8:29 And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

What did Abraham and Rahab believe? They believed that God is for them and would protect and preserve them.

How did Abraham and Rahab show that they believed God was for them? Abraham believed that there was no way Isaac would not come back off the mountain with him.
Rahab believed she was safe siding with the spies.

Living faith expresses a confidence that God is for us.
Dead faith expresses the belief that God is not for me, I have to save myself, try to preserve my own life, keep my food and don't share, keep my son off the altar and turn the spies in.


Quote:
I can show you how I keep the law Etc through all text in the Bible with no contradictions... You might want to think about that, because you cannot


I would just like for you to put a passage in context when interpreting instead of adding your own interpretation or one you've been handed on a YouTube video.

Quote:
And you still have not answered my question whether believe is that the teeth keep the 10 words/Commandments. Oh wait, it's only 9 now because you believe Paul is saying you don't have to keep the Commandment to not covet. Oh wait, you probably believe that we don't have to keep the Sabbath either, now that's 8. Do you see a problem here


I've answered your question several times. I'll answer it again. NO, we don't have to keep ANY of the law of Moses as a condition of righteousness, blessing or life.

Under the new covenant, we receive righteousness, blessing and life as a free gift of His grace by faith.


So you serve a lawless god? 🤔 2 Thess 2 talks about the man of sin, which is lawlessness, which is Torahlessness, no Torah. That's the Antichrist you might had him confused
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So you serve a lawless god?


Laughing

We are under new laws that produce freedom not bondage.


A lawless God?

I have a Father who showed us that comes not be served, but to serve.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So you serve a lawless god?


Laughing

We are under new laws that produce freedom not bondage.


A lawless God?

I have a Father who showed us that comes not be served, but to serve.


Those are new laws brad, look them up & the Torah is Crystal Clear in Deuteronomy 4:2 you shall not add or subtract from My Commandments I give you this day. Like I have said a hundred times, if Messiah did that you'd be a false Messiah and we'd be dead in our sins and no hope
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So you serve a lawless god?


Laughing

We are under new laws that produce freedom not bondage.


A lawless God?

I have a Father who showed us that comes not be served, but to serve.


Those are new laws brad, look them up & the Torah is Crystal Clear in Deuteronomy 4:2 you shall not add or subtract from My Commandments I give you this day. Like I have said a hundred times, if Messiah did that you'd be a false Messiah and we'd be dead in our sins and no hope


The old has ALL been fulfilled, as Jesus explained.
You persist in trying to say that Jesus failed in why He came. He didn't.
He came to fulfill the Law. He succeeded.

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

So, not just jots and tittles have passed from the Law, but we have a new commandment, a new priesthood, a new sacrifice, with new blood, sprinkled on a new mercy seat in a new Jerusalem. The old has passed away, the new has come.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

New - kainos - fresh, new, unused, novel. properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

This command did not exist in the Law.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

This command did not exist in the Law.

These are His commandments - to believe and love with His love.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So you serve a lawless god?


Laughing

We are under new laws that produce freedom not bondage.


A lawless God?

I have a Father who showed us that comes not be served, but to serve.


Those are new laws brad, look them up & the Torah is Crystal Clear in Deuteronomy 4:2 you shall not add or subtract from My Commandments I give you this day. Like I have said a hundred times, if Messiah did that you'd be a false Messiah and we'd be dead in our sins and no hope


The old has ALL been fulfilled, as Jesus explained.
You persist in trying to say that Jesus failed in why He came. He didn't.
He came to fulfill the Law. He succeeded.

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

So, not just jots and tittles have passed from the Law, but we have a new commandment, a new priesthood, a new sacrifice, with new blood, sprinkled on a new mercy seat in a new Jerusalem. The old has passed away, the new has come.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

New - kainos - fresh, new, unused, novel. properly, new in quality (innovation), fresh in development or opportunity – because "not found exactly like this before."

This command did not exist in the Law.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

This command did not exist in the Law.

These are His commandments - to believe and love with His love.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Ok brad, I think we are done, I really have no interest in going around the mountain with you. Your just going to have to believe it the way you do, contradictions in all & holes everywhere in your theology

But I like to point out, we are not saved by what we believe, or say about what G-d said. & Your scripture about loving one another is not a new commandment is old, it's just new/renewed in Messiah to love others as "He loved us", it's a G-dly love. The Torah also says to believe & love

But what about the command to be a disciple in Y'shua brad? Matt 28. Doesn't it concern you one bit, that you don't look like, talk like or live like the Messiah? You live according to another gospel, it's not Messiahs. How can you be a disciple of Y'shua and do everything opposite? You have bits and pieces of "a" gospel, why not get the whole gospel let's use the whole Bible to live our lives not edited, divided, and chop it up to what we wanted to be or look like?

I showed you in all texts of the bible Torah stands for the believer, you showed me some New Testament misinterpreted verses. Do you have any Old Testament scriptures prophesying the Law will be no more when Messiah comes? No, u don't Study or doctrine brad, and if you can't find it with no breakage or contradiction, flush it it's not of G-d.

Shalom
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
But I like to point out, we are not saved by what we believe, or say about what G-d said. & Your scripture about loving one another is not a new commandment is old, it's just new/renewed in Messiah to love others as "He loved us", it's a G-dly love. The Torah also says to believe & love


New does mean renewed. New means new.

The old commandment is to love as we love ourselves. Self-love is our standard.
The new commandment is to love as He loved us. Self-less love is the standard.
If you can't see how superior His new commandment is to the old, I can't help you.

Quote:
But what about the command to be a disciple in Y'shua brad? Matt 28. Doesn't it concern you one bit, that you don't look like, talk like or live like the Messiah?


Disciple - mathetes - literally "a learner"

Love looks like, talks like and lives like Jesus.

He sits at rest. I sit at rest.
His work is finished. My works are finished.
He is blessed. I am blessed.
He is righteous. I am righteous.
He is holy. I am holy.
He is hidden in God. I am hidden in God.

Sounds like I am just like Jesus by His doing.

Quote:
You have bits and pieces of "a" gospel, why not get the whole gospel let's use the whole Bible to live our lives not edited, divided, and chop it up to what we wanted to be or look like?


We use the whole Bible rightly divided. We understand the Bible in the light of the cross. We don't continue in an old, obsolete covenant that was weak and useless to perfect anyone. We enjoy a new covenant, inaugurated at His death that perfected, sanctified, redeemed and made us new.

The old covenant is the bad news of shame, curses, condemnation and death.
The new covenant is the good news gospel of peace, blessing, righteousness and life.

Quote:
I showed you in all texts of the bible Torah stands for the believer, you showed me some New Testament misinterpreted verses. Do you have any Old Testament scriptures prophesying the Law will be no more when Messiah comes?


Aren't New Testament scriptures good enough for you?

I've given you a multitude of scriptures and looked at them patiently and in context.

I have not inserted by own definitions for law or Mt. Sinai or new like you have.

I am happy to discuss any other passage with you to help you with that veil over your mind and get your focus off of you and back onto Christ.
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Post bradfreeman
2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Let's re-write this using your terminology:

2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of Christ the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Christ is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

How about this passage:

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death (Christ), in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation (Christ) has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Or this one:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Translated your way:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is Christ;

No, Christ doesn't veil minds, Moses does.
Christ doesn't minister death and condemnation, the old covenant does.
Christ isn't the power of sin. He nailed the power of sin to a cross.
Christ isn't the law of Moses. Christ fulfilled the law of Moses.
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2/21/18 4:32 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
I'm sorry, I'm really sorry brad, I have no idea what denomination you're into but it is far from the Truth. All your little sayings 🙄 please stop

Christ doesn't veil minds Moses does, 🙄😕. You speak with a double tongue you said in other threads that there's nothing wrong with the Law, yet you turn around and say like this. No verse to support that, & please do not try to use 2nd Corinthians chapter 3 😢
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2/21/18 5:36 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Let's re-write this using your terminology:

2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of Christ the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Christ is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

How about this passage:

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death (Christ), in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation (Christ) has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Or this one:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Translated your way:

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is Christ;

No, Christ doesn't veil minds, Moses does.
Christ doesn't minister death and condemnation, the old covenant does.
Christ isn't the power of sin. He nailed the power of sin to a cross.
Christ isn't the law of Moses. Christ fulfilled the law of Moses.


U have no clue what you're talking about, so you're saying G-d who wrote the law Ex 31:18 wrote it to put a veil over the Jewish people's minds, the same people He brought to Egypt into Freedom? That's what you believe?

You can't even show me that in all texts of the Bible, you can't show me that in one book of the Bible. You said Christ does not put a veil over mines, Moshe does

2Cor 3:14 is not the Law of Moshe that put a veil over their minds, G-d did.....Rom 11:25; for I would not bretheren, *brad* that you should be ignorant of this mystery, less you should be wise in your own conceits *that the blindness* in part has happened to Y'srael *until* the fullness of the Gentiles comes in....

I'm done, I've shown your falsehood long enough. I pray that the G-d of Y'sreal Grant's u repentance of this nonsense, it's only by G-d's Spirit that we can repent. You just can't repent whenever you want to. I pray for God to reveal His Truth to you in His Jewish in his Jewish Word, Bible...
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2/21/18 5:50 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
U have no clue what you're talking about, so you're saying G-d who wrote the law Ex 31:18 wrote it to put a veil over the Jewish people's minds, the same people He brought to Egypt into Freedom? That's what you believe?


You don't have to say what I'm saying. I'll say it clearly for you.
God doesn't veil minds, Satan does.

Paul continues talking about the veil in 2 Cor 4:

2 Cor 3:12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away...
...2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Satan, the god of this world that hates Jesus, uses Moses to veil minds.
Just like Satan uses Moses to accuse.

John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

When Jesus nailed the law to the cross, he disarmed the accuser.

Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
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