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Is there a blessing that comes from keeping the 613 OT laws?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad, you do have a problem with the laws cuz you don't understand them. If you understood him you wouldn't be saying all the stuff that you say now, & you wouldn't be twisting Paul's letters in your theology to make it work and it won't, not ever.

Wow that's all you want me to interpret 🙄, yeah I'm not going to do that, I probably already have answering all ur questions 😶


I don't have any problem at all with the OT law when its used lawfully. However, the law is not for NT believers, it's for those under the law.

1 Tim 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

Rom 4:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Then a few verses later Paul makes it clear that we are not under law.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

So, the tutor no longer has anything to speak to us. We've experience Christ, the reality of all the law pictured and foreshadowed, the fulfillment of the law. There is no need for shadow worship. We've experience the substance, which is Christ.

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The trouble is: You won't engage in any meaningful dialogue on key NT passages that deal with the role of the OT law in the life of NT believer.


Yes you do have a problem with the law, you don't want to do it brad. The verses that you use are not for you they work for me. If you're using the Law Lawfully, then ur *using/living* by the Law🙄. & The Law is throughout the NT to the believer no matter what you think sadly. Messiah speaks on the 10 words in Matt 22, the Sabbath is there, the Feasts r there, eating kosher is there etc. All after the death and resurrection of Messiah. That's something you need to figure out

Not to mention your discipleship of Messiah, because it is clearly different, clearly.

1Tim 1:9; Law is not made for a Righteous person.... Because he's already keeping the Laws/Instructions, it's for the ones who don't. Rom 4:19 speaks of your not justified by your works of the Law, it is for the knowledge of what's in is....

Yes, Paul does make it crystal clear that we are not under the Law of "sin" & "death" brad. Col 2:16 is not speaking of you brad, it's speak to those who keep those things, & you don't

And it's comical that you say I don't engage in any new testament conversation which with you is all I do. You refuse to address any Old Testament things I bring up. So once again brad, you have things turned around😶
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Yes you do have a problem with the law, you don't want to do it brad.


I have no interest in living like a Jew. The truth of the Gospel is that we don't have to.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

I won't fall into the hypocrisy of compelling Gentiles to live like Jews.

I am, however, interest in love which fulfills the law.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Yes you do have a problem with the law, you don't want to do it brad.


I have no interest in living like a Jew. The truth of the Gospel is that we don't have to.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

I won't fall into the hypocrisy of compelling Gentiles to live like Jews.

I am, however, interest in love which fulfills the law.


It's not about being Jewish, how many times I got to tell you that? Your fixed on not being Jewish that you don't even see or understand that the Way the Jewish people live is the Way G-d told them to live It's a G-d thing, not a Jewish thing. & Since ur so focused on not being Jewish, u miss the whole thing. You have no idea the family you're in and you have no idea what discipleship is, because you look nothing like Y'shua & you will never bring a Jewish person that jealousy like your commanded Rom 11:11.

Here, you always quote Paul, in misquoting Paul, and not understanding what he's talking about and you twist description scriptures. But why don't you show me where Y'shua said the ,"Law" is done away with. Because they are both saying two different things, who's right?, did Paul have a different Ministry in the Messiah?. Did Messiah not know the Law was going to be done away with?

You can't have Messiah saying the Laws not going to be done away with till all is fulfilled, (& all is not yet🙄) and have Paul running around saying it's gone, but then you have places where Paul saying it stands, so is Paul double-minded?

Oh brother..
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Post Isa 58:12
I've asked you before now I ask you again, does the believer have to keep the 10 Words/Commandments? & Another thing I ask you that you ignore is, after messiah's death and Resurrection why are they still keeping the Sabbath the Feasts, eating kosher Etc, why are they still keeping the Torah, "if" all is fulfilled?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I've asked you before now I ask you again, does the believer have to keep the 10 Words/Commandments? & Another thing I ask you that you ignore is, after messiah's death and Resurrection why are they still keeping the Sabbath the Feasts, eating kosher Etc, why are they still keeping the Torah, "if" all is fulfilled?


Question 1: does the believer have to keep the 10 Words/Commandments?
No. Keeping these are not a condition of righteousness, blessing or life.

Question 2: why are they still keeping the Sabbath the Feasts, eating kosher Etc, why are they still keeping the Torah, "if" all is fulfilled?

It took many years for the Disciples to finally get it - we are saved, righteous and blessed by grace through faith, not works.

Even in Acts 15, some fifteen + years after the cross they were still debating whether the Gentiles needed to cut the skin off their private parts and keep the Law of Moses to be saved.

That's why God used Paul - to explain what happened in redemption. These ways of thinking were strongholds that Paul dealt with over and over, with the Romans, the Corinthians, the Galatians, the Philippians, the Ephesians, the Colossians and even with Titus and Timothy he was reminding them not to fall away from faith. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about, keeping Hebrews from going to back to an obsolete inferior covenant. It's also what the 7 churches in Revelation were contending with.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Here, you always quote Paul, in misquoting Paul, and not understanding what he's talking about and you twist description scriptures. But why don't you show me where Y'shua said the ,"Law" is done away with.


You don't like Paul? Do his letters not hold the weight of scripture?

Here is what Jesus said about the law:

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

So was all fulfilled?

Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

Jesus said before His death that "all things must be fulfilled" and they were. So jots and tittles passed from the law.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Jesus said we need an exceeding righteousness. More than cleaning the outside of the cup and putting on sheep's clothes like the pharisees. A clean heart and right spirit that only God can create in us.

Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

As I told you earlier, in Mat 19 Jesus said finding life through the law was impossible. We need God to give us life. That's what He does.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

So what did Jesus say about the Law?

He said the Law was written about Him, not you or me.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Heb 10:11 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”


Quote:
Because they are both saying two different things, who's right?, did Paul have a different Ministry in the Messiah?. Did Messiah not know the Law was going to be done away with?


Messiah knew He was establishing a new covenant.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Quote:
You can't have Messiah saying the Laws not going to be done away with till all is fulfilled, (& all is not yet🙄) and have Paul running around saying it's gone, but then you have places where Paul saying it stands, so is Paul double-minded?


You're misquoting Jesus. He said "not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." He said NOTHING, not even the smallest part, would pass from the Law until all is fulfilled.

If NONE of the Law has passed then Jesus is disqualified as our high priest because He isn't of Levi. If ANY part of the Law has passed then ALL has been fulfilled.

It shouldn't surprised you that He fulfilled the Law. That's why He came. He said in Mat 5:17 that He came to fulfill the Law. He didn't fail. He succeeded. It is finished.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Here, you always quote Paul, in misquoting Paul, and not understanding what he's talking about and you twist description scriptures. But why don't you show me where Y'shua said the ,"Law" is done away with.


You don't like Paul? Do his letters not hold the weight of scripture?

Here is what Jesus said about the law:

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

So was all fulfilled?

Luke 24:44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

Jesus said before His death that "all things must be fulfilled" and they were. So jots and tittles passed from the law.

Heb. 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Jesus said we need an exceeding righteousness. More than cleaning the outside of the cup and putting on sheep's clothes like the pharisees. A clean heart and right spirit that only God can create in us.

Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

As I told you earlier, in Mat 19 Jesus said finding life through the law was impossible. We need God to give us life. That's what He does.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

So what did Jesus say about the Law?

He said the Law was written about Him, not you or me.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Heb 10:11 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”


Quote:
Because they are both saying two different things, who's right?, did Paul have a different Ministry in the Messiah?. Did Messiah not know the Law was going to be done away with?


Messiah knew He was establishing a new covenant.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Quote:
You can't have Messiah saying the Laws not going to be done away with till all is fulfilled, (& all is not yet🙄) and have Paul running around saying it's gone, but then you have places where Paul saying it stands, so is Paul double-minded?


You're misquoting Jesus. He said "not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." He said NOTHING, not even the smallest part, would pass from the Law until all is fulfilled.

If NONE of the Law has passed then Jesus is disqualified as our high priest because He isn't of Levi. If ANY part of the Law has passed then ALL has been fulfilled.

It shouldn't surprised you that He fulfilled the Law. That's why He came. He said in Mat 5:17 that He came to fulfill the Law. He didn't fail. He succeeded. It is finished.


Why r the Apostles still keeping the Law "if" all was fulfilled? I guess u r misquoting Y'shua 😶. & I love Paul, he said in 1Cor 11:1; be followers of me, as also I am of Messiah. Ur not even being a disciple of Paul correctly, if Paul followed/discipled Y'shua & kept Torah as He did, why can't u?

Look, G-d said in His Torah/Instructions Deut 4:2; do not add or subtract from my Commandments I give you this day, that you made keep the Commandments of the L-rd ur G-d which I command you today

Is your problem, not only are the apostles in the New Testament still keeping the Torah, Sabbath's, Feasts, eating kosher Etc, if Messiah or Paul did away with the Law Y'shua & Paul would be a false prophets Deut 13:1-5 & and we would still be in our sins because Messiah would be a sinner by breaking this Commandment which would make him sinful
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Why r the Apostles still keeping the Law "if" all was fulfilled?


Question: why are they still keeping the Sabbath the Feasts, eating kosher Etc, why are they still keeping the Torah, "if" all is fulfilled?

It took many years for the Disciples to finally get it - we are saved, righteous and blessed by grace through faith, not by works of the law.

Even in Acts 15, some fifteen + years after the cross they were still debating whether the Gentiles needed to cut the skin off their private parts and keep the Law of Moses to be saved.

That's why God used Paul - to explain what happened in redemption. These ways of thinking were strongholds that Paul dealt with over and over, with the Romans, the Corinthians, the Galatians, the Philippians, the Ephesians, the Colossians and even with Titus and Timothy he was reminding them not to fall away from faith. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about, keeping Hebrews from going to back to an obsolete inferior covenant. It's also what the 7 churches in Revelation were contending with.

[quote} I guess u r misquoting Y'shua 😶. & I love Paul, he said in 1Cor 11:1; be followers of me, as also I am of Messiah. Ur not even being a disciple of Paul correctly, if Paul followed/discipled Y'shua & kept Torah as He did, why can't u? [/quote]

Jesus gets to say what it means to be His imitator, not you or Moses. Our love, not our law-keeping, is people will know if we're following Jesus.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Quote:
Look, G-d said in His Torah/Instructions Deut 4:2; do not add or subtract from my Commandments I give you this day, that you made keep the Commandments of the L-rd ur G-d which I command you today

Is your problem, not only are the apostles in the New Testament still keeping the Torah, Sabbath's, Feasts, eating kosher Etc, if Messiah or Paul did away with the Law Y'shua & Paul would be a false prophets Deut 13:1-5 & and we would still be in our sins because Messiah would be a sinner by breaking this Commandment which would make him sinful


Yes! No subtractions until ALL is fulfilled. All has been fulfilled so the law of priesthood has been change, God established a new covenant that has made the first obsolete.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Why r the Apostles still keeping the Law "if" all was fulfilled? I guess u r misquoting Y'shua 😶. & I love Paul, he said in 1Cor 11:1; be followers of me, as also I am of Messiah. Ur not even being a disciple of Paul correctly, if Paul followed/discipled Y'shua & kept Torah as He did, why can't u?


Jesus gets to say what it means to be His imitator, not you or Moses. Our love, not our law-keeping, is people will know if we're following Jesus.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Quote:
Look, G-d said in His Torah/Instructions Deut 4:2; do not add or subtract from my Commandments I give you this day, that you made keep the Commandments of the L-rd ur G-d which I command you today

Is your problem, not only are the apostles in the New Testament still keeping the Torah, Sabbath's, Feasts, eating kosher Etc, if Messiah or Paul did away with the Law Y'shua & Paul would be a false prophets Deut 13:1-5 & and we would still be in our sins because Messiah would be a sinner by breaking this Commandment which would make him sinful


Yes! No subtractions until ALL is fulfilled. All has been fulfilled so the law of priesthood has been change, God established a new covenant that has made the first obsolete.


Yes brad, I'm glad that you know that the high Priestly part of Law has been fulfilled, but not everything else. Why were the apostles still keeping the Law Sabbath, Feast, dietary, Etc?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Yes brad, I'm glad that you know that the high Priestly part of Law has been fulfilled, but not everything else. Why were the apostles still keeping the Law Sabbath, Feast, dietary, Etc?


You're missing the point. ALL has been fulfilled or NONE of it passes away, not one jot or tittle.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Yes brad, I'm glad that you know that the high Priestly part of Law has been fulfilled, but not everything else. Why were the apostles still keeping the Law Sabbath, Feast, dietary, Etc?


You're missing the point. ALL has been fulfilled or NONE of it passes away, not one jot or tittle.


I think you're missing it, has Heaven and Earth pass yet? I'm not missing what you say, you say Messiah fulfill all the law therefore you don't have to do it anymore he paid the price. Now you're saying the opposite it's like you're trying to play both sides of the fence here
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Yes brad, I'm glad that you know that the high Priestly part of Law has been fulfilled, but not everything else. Why were the apostles still keeping the Law Sabbath, Feast, dietary, Etc?


You're missing the point. ALL has been fulfilled or NONE of it passes away, not one jot or tittle.


I think you're missing it, has Heaven and Earth pass yet? I'm not missing what you say, you say Messiah fulfill all the law therefore you don't have to do it anymore he paid the price. Now you're saying the opposite it's like you're trying to play both sides of the fence here


Again, you're misquoting Jesus. He said that as long as Heaven and Earth exist, the law would never pass away, not even the smallest part, until all is fulfilled. That was why God sent Him - to fulfill the law. He fulfilled it by loving us. Love is the fulfillment of the law.

Mat. 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Did Jesus fail in His mission to fulfill the law? That's why He came.
Did God's word return to Him without accomplishing all that it was sent to do?
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2/19/18 4:47 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Yes brad, I'm glad that you know that the high Priestly part of Law has been fulfilled, but not everything else. Why were the apostles still keeping the Law Sabbath, Feast, dietary, Etc?


You're missing the point. ALL has been fulfilled or NONE of it passes away, not one jot or tittle.


I think you're missing it, has Heaven and Earth pass yet? I'm not missing what you say, you say Messiah fulfill all the law therefore you don't have to do it anymore he paid the price. Now you're saying the opposite it's like you're trying to play both sides of the fence here


Again, you're misquoting Jesus. He said that as long as Heaven and Earth exist, the law would never pass away, not even the smallest part, until all is fulfilled. That was why God sent Him - to fulfill the law. He fulfilled it by loving us. Love is the fulfillment of the law.

Mat. 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Did Jesus fail in His mission to fulfill the law? That's why He came.
Did God's word return to Him without accomplishing all that it was sent to do?


nope,. Has the Earth stopped existing? You must be Apostolic I have a cousin who says stuff like this all the time, or ur SDA or something

Again, if Messiah fulfilled the law and you don't have to do it anymore, why are the Apostle still doing it, wouldn't that be a contradiction?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Again, if Messiah fulfilled the law and you don't have to do it anymore, why are the Apostle still doing it, wouldn't that be a contradiction?


If Paul kept the law, it was to reach the Jews. He was extreme in his love for them.

1 Cor. 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.

You didn't answer my questions.

Mat. 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Did Jesus fail in His mission to fulfill the law? That's why He came.
Did God's word return to Him without accomplishing all that it was sent to do?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Again, if Messiah fulfilled the law and you don't have to do it anymore, why are the Apostle still doing it, wouldn't that be a contradiction?


If Paul kept the law, it was to reach the Jews. He was extreme in his love for them.

1 Cor. 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.

You didn't answer my questions.

Mat. 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Did Jesus fail in His mission to fulfill the law? That's why He came.
Did God's word return to Him without accomplishing all that it was sent to do?


How about Paul kept the law, because he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, and knew that the Torah said You shall not add or subtract from it and he knew what a false prophet was Deut 13:1-5

The Greek word for fulfill means complete, he completed or fulfilled the scripture speaking of Him, Passover a Perfect example 100%. But Paul in the apostles are still keeping Passover 🤔. He didn't fail His mission, It's Not Over, has the New Jerusalem come down from heaven yet and he's ruling from the Throne of his father David in Jerusalem?

No
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
How about Paul kept the law, because he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, and knew that the Torah said You shall not add or subtract from it and he knew what a false prophet was Deut 13:1-5


I'm really glad you mentioned that. Let's look at that in context.

Phi 3:4 If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, ...

13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,


What did Paul think of his Jewishness, his zeal, his blameless law-keeping?
    He counted it loss.
    He counted it as rubbish.
    He forgot it.

Paul refused to place any confidence toward God in his flesh. How much confidence did Paul place in his flesh, his Phariseeism, his zeal, his law-keeping? NONE.

Jesus told His listeners they needed to lose their whole lives, their father, mother, wives, children (their tribe), their brothers, sisters (their nation) and their own lives (their zeal, their education, their self-righteousness to follow Him. Paul counted it all as loss.

Quote:
He didn't fail His mission, It's Not Over, has the New Jerusalem come down from heaven yet and he's ruling from the Throne of his father David in Jerusalem?

No


It is finished. Christ, the Word made flesh, has returned to the Father. He didn't return without accomplishing ALL He was sent to do.

He will come again, but He came the first time to fulfill the law, to redeem mankind and take away sin and He accomplished ALL that He was sent to do.

John 14:3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
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2/20/18 8:20 am


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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
How about Paul kept the law, because he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, and knew that the Torah said You shall not add or subtract from it and he knew what a false prophet was Deut 13:1-5


I'm really glad you mentioned that. Let's look at that in context.

Phi 3:4 If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, ...

13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,


What did Paul think of his Jewishness, his zeal, his blameless law-keeping?
    He counted it loss.
    He counted it as rubbish.
    He forgot it.

Paul refused to place any confidence toward God in his flesh. How much confidence did Paul place in his flesh, his Phariseeism, his zeal, his law-keeping? NONE.

Jesus told His listeners they needed to lose their whole lives, their father, mother, wives, children (their tribe), their brothers, sisters (their nation) and their own lives (their zeal, their education, their self-righteousness to follow Him. Paul counted it all as loss.

Quote:
He didn't fail His mission, It's Not Over, has the New Jerusalem come down from heaven yet and he's ruling from the Throne of his father David in Jerusalem?

No


It is finished. Christ, the Word made flesh, has returned to the Father. He didn't return without accomplishing ALL He was sent to do.

He will come again, but He came the first time to fulfill the law, to redeem mankind and take away sin and He accomplished ALL that He was sent to do.

John 14:3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Heb 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.


Ok
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2/20/18 11:40 pm


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Post & yes, there are Blessings Isa 58:12
If you throw out the Law/Torah, you throw out all the blessings & Promises, & sadly, Y'shua, the word made flesh

Deut 28:1-13; and it shall come to pass, if you will "listen" diligently unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d, to serve and to do all His Commandments which I Command you this day, that the L-rd your G-d will set "you on high above" *all* the nations of the Earth

Vs2; and ALL these Blessings shall come on "you" and "overtake you", if you will listen unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d.

Vs 3; Blessed, vs 4; Blessed, 5; Blessed, 6; Blessed, 7; L-rd shall, 7; L-rd shall, 8; L-rd shall, 9; L-rd shall, 11; L-rd shall, 12; L-rd shall, 13; and the L-rd shall make you the head, and not the tail, and you "shall" be above only, you should "not" be below, "if" you will listen unto the Commandments of the L-rd "your" G-d, which I Command you this day, to observe and "to do them"

& "If" u don't......

Deut 29:9; keep therefore the Words of this "Covenant" and "do them", that you "may" prosper in ALL that you do😉. Just a small few, Ex 23:25, Josh 1:7, 2Chr20:20, 1Kings 2:3, Ps 1:1-3 😇

Matt 5:19 whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he should be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.......BUT, whosoever shall do and teach them, (Torah) the same shall be called GREAT in the Kingdom of Heaven 😀😉😇
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2/22/18 9:32 pm


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Post Re: & yes, there are Blessings bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
If you throw out the Law/Torah, you throw out all the blessings & Promises, & sadly, Y'shua, the word made flesh

Deut 28:1-13; and it shall come to pass, if you will "listen" diligently unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d, to serve and to do all His Commandments which I Command you this day, that the L-rd your G-d will set "you on high above" *all* the nations of the Earth

Vs2; and ALL these Blessings shall come on "you" and "overtake you", if you will listen unto the voice of the L-rd your G-d.

Vs 3; Blessed, vs 4; Blessed, 5; Blessed, 6; Blessed, 7; L-rd shall, 7; L-rd shall, 8; L-rd shall, 9; L-rd shall, 11; L-rd shall, 12; L-rd shall, 13; and the L-rd shall make you the head, and not the tail, and you "shall" be above only, you should "not" be below, "if" you will listen unto the Commandments of the L-rd "your" G-d, which I Command you this day, to observe and "to do them"

& "If" u don't......


I'm already blessed with every blessing and my blessing isn't dependent on my self-righteousness, but Jesus' finished work!!!

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

Jesus showed us a Father who blesses those who curse Him.

Luke 6:27 “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. 29 To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. 31 And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.

32 “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36 Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.


Even sinners love those who love them.
Even sinners do good to those who do good to them.
Even sinners give to those who will pay them back.

You teach God as a sinner who loves, does good and gives to those who love, do good and give.

He's better than that. "He is kind to the unthankful and evil."

Jesus taught a new different standard for "blessing."

Luke 6:20 Then He lifted up His eyes toward His disciples, and said:

“Blessed are you poor,
For yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are you who hunger now,
For you shall be filled.
Blessed are you who weep now,
For you shall laugh.
22 Blessed are you when men hate you,
And when they exclude you,
And revile you, and cast out your name as evil,
For the Son of Man’s sake.
23 Rejoice in that day and leap for joy!
For indeed your reward is great in heaven,
For in like manner their fathers did to the prophets.


The Law would not call the poor and hungry blessed.
The Law would say the poor and hungry are under the Deut 28 curse for their disobedience.
The Law called the rich blessed, Jesus didn't.

Luke 6:24 “But woe to you who are rich,
For you have received your consolation.
25 Woe to you who are full,
For you shall hunger.
Woe to you who laugh now,
For you shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

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2/23/18 6:58 am


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Post Isa 58:12
brad, your whole summation of the law in New Testament is in contradictory to the old, you're not understanding what you're saying brad. Like I said in another thread if there are a few verses that agree with letter "A", but the rest of the Bible agrees with letter "B", letter "B" is right. You just want the Law to say what you think it says, and that contradicts the whole Bible, even contradicts the New Testament on scriptures

Let go of of your interpretation. Prov 3:5; trust in the L-rd with all your heart, and lean not unto your own understanding. But in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths

Shalom
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2/24/18 8:22 pm


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