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Which of the 613 OT laws are "binding?"
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... Isa 58:12
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
What OT laws are binding? The answer is whatever Jesus and the Apostles gave us as commandments in the New Testament.

Mat


& Which r those. Please, show me what Y'shua said against the Torah/Law in the NT



Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

No Temple, no altar, no Holy of Holies, no morning sacrifice, no evening sacrifice, no table and bread, no lamp, no oil no light, no priesthood or levites , no feast, no prayers and no need for going to Jerusalem to be saved.

Jesus did not come to bring us under the Law or to lead us to the Law. The Jews were a chosen people to provide the Messiah for the world, the Messiah did not come to make us all Jews.

It took the destruction of the Temple (and Jerusalem), which was God's will, to demonstrate that Christianity is not just an "add-on" to the Law and Jewish culture. Some remain unconvinced to this day. As a nation, the Jews rejected the Messiah. Why, because God allowed them to be spiritually blind (as Paul said, to this day they have the covering of Moses over their eyes). I will not become as Jesus said, "the blind leading the blind" and I will not be bound by the words of a "want-to-be-playing-at-being-jewish" who is no jew.

There is only one who can save, and it ain't Moses. Is that clear enough.

Mat


Do people here struggle from anti-Semitism or something? Matt you have no idea what you're talking about I'm sorry this is totally incorrect. The destruction of the temple is because they defiled it, think about that in the New Testament, you understand what I'm saying

The destruction of the Temple, was not the destruction of the Law, Feasts, Sabbath, etc.....


Anyone who resorts to playing the "anti-Semite" card should be ignored.


I do understand why you don't see it skeptic 😶. It's kind of like smokers don't think they stink 😒
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... Mat
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
What OT laws are binding? The answer is whatever Jesus and the Apostles gave us as commandments in the New Testament.

Mat


& Which r those. Please, show me what Y'shua said against the Torah/Law in the NT



Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

No Temple, no altar, no Holy of Holies, no morning sacrifice, no evening sacrifice, no table and bread, no lamp, no oil no light, no priesthood or levites , no feast, no prayers and no need for going to Jerusalem to be saved.

Jesus did not come to bring us under the Law or to lead us to the Law. The Jews were a chosen people to provide the Messiah for the world, the Messiah did not come to make us all Jews.

It took the destruction of the Temple (and Jerusalem), which was God's will, to demonstrate that Christianity is not just an "add-on" to the Law and Jewish culture. Some remain unconvinced to this day. As a nation, the Jews rejected the Messiah. Why, because God allowed them to be spiritually blind (as Paul said, to this day they have the covering of Moses over their eyes). I will not become as Jesus said, "the blind leading the blind" and I will not be bound by the words of a "want-to-be-playing-at-being-jewish" who is no jew.

There is only one who can save, and it ain't Moses. Is that clear enough.

Mat


Do people here struggle from anti-Semitism or something? Matt you have no idea what you're talking about I'm sorry this is totally incorrect. The destruction of the temple is because they defiled it, think about that in the New Testament, you understand what I'm saying

The destruction of the Temple, was not the destruction of the Law, Feasts, Sabbath, etc.....


Anyone who resorts to playing the "anti-Semite" card should be ignored.


Semite - In what context do you use the term. Descendants of Shem? Then you must recognize the all of Abraham's sons, even Ishmael, after all there is a blessing on him as well. If you're referring to language, then the kinship between Hebrew and Arabic is strong. If you're simply referring to the Jewish people of today (a rather narrow, and perhaps, races viewpoint from the Arab perspective), then you focused on the blood line, and we know those who are not Jewish by blood are Gentiles. Now if your referring to observant Jews, the problem I see is that only a small percentage of those who are truly of the Jewish bloodline keep, or try to keep, the Law.

So, is it your contention that bloodline Jews have a special dispensation where they are blessed weather they keep the Law or not? Since most Jews of the bloodline reject Jesus Christ, are you saying since they are Jews God is going to overlook their dis-belief and they will be saved through their bloodline?

Finally, you seem to be saying that because I appose your gospel that requires keeping the Law of Moses along with my belief in Jesus Christ, that my rejection of your views constitute me being "anti-Semitic". That's a handy fallback position for you to take when I say it was God's will for the temple to be destroyed and not rebuild for almost 2000 years.

If strongly disagreeing with you makes me Anti-Semitic, could you at less provide proof you are a bloodline Jew. Perhaps I disagree with your version of the gospel, not who you were born to. Now if you're pretending to be a Jew, how can my rejection of you be Anti-Semitic?

Some years ago I had one of the founders of "Jews for Jesus" speak at my church. He was a New York Jew (secular) who gave his life to Jesus because of the testimony of a Puerto Rican busboy at his favorite deli. He said, "the best thing a Christian can do for a Jew is introduce him to Jesus Christ."

As a Christian I am called to win the Jewish people to Jesus and pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I am not called to "bow" to the Jewish people based on bloodline, culture or language. I do count the reestablishment of the nation of Israel important and support its continued existence. I see it as fulfillment of Biblical prophecy that points to the second coming of Christ. However, I"m disappointed over the secular nature of Israel and how closed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ they are. God will allow the Temple to be rebuilt according to His timeline, but as I read the New Testament if be used as a tool of deception of the Jewish people.

So was your mother Jewish?

Mat
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... Resident Skeptic
Mat wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
What OT laws are binding? The answer is whatever Jesus and the Apostles gave us as commandments in the New Testament.

Mat


& Which r those. Please, show me what Y'shua said against the Torah/Law in the NT



Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

No Temple, no altar, no Holy of Holies, no morning sacrifice, no evening sacrifice, no table and bread, no lamp, no oil no light, no priesthood or levites , no feast, no prayers and no need for going to Jerusalem to be saved.

Jesus did not come to bring us under the Law or to lead us to the Law. The Jews were a chosen people to provide the Messiah for the world, the Messiah did not come to make us all Jews.

It took the destruction of the Temple (and Jerusalem), which was God's will, to demonstrate that Christianity is not just an "add-on" to the Law and Jewish culture. Some remain unconvinced to this day. As a nation, the Jews rejected the Messiah. Why, because God allowed them to be spiritually blind (as Paul said, to this day they have the covering of Moses over their eyes). I will not become as Jesus said, "the blind leading the blind" and I will not be bound by the words of a "want-to-be-playing-at-being-jewish" who is no jew.

There is only one who can save, and it ain't Moses. Is that clear enough.

Mat


Do people here struggle from anti-Semitism or something? Matt you have no idea what you're talking about I'm sorry this is totally incorrect. The destruction of the temple is because they defiled it, think about that in the New Testament, you understand what I'm saying

The destruction of the Temple, was not the destruction of the Law, Feasts, Sabbath, etc.....


Anyone who resorts to playing the "anti-Semite" card should be ignored.


Semite - In what context do you use the term. Descendants of Shem? Then you must recognize the all of Abraham's sons, even Ishmael, after all there is a blessing on him as well. If you're referring to language, then the kinship between Hebrew and Arabic is strong. If you're simply referring to the Jewish people of today (a rather narrow, and perhaps, races viewpoint from the Arab perspective), then you focused on the blood line, and we know those who are not Jewish by blood are Gentiles. Now if your referring to observant Jews, the problem I see is that only a small percentage of those who are truly of the Jewish bloodline keep, or try to keep, the Law.

So, is it your contention that bloodline Jews have a special dispensation where they are blessed weather they keep the Law or not? Since most Jews of the bloodline reject Jesus Christ, are you saying since they are Jews God is going to overlook their dis-belief and they will be saved through their bloodline?

Finally, you seem to be saying that because I appose your gospel that requires keeping the Law of Moses along with my belief in Jesus Christ, that my rejection of your views constitute me being "anti-Semitic". That's a handy fallback position for you to take when I say it was God's will for the temple to be destroyed and not rebuild for almost 2000 years.

If strongly disagreeing with you makes me Anti-Semitic, could you at less provide proof you are a bloodline Jew. Perhaps I disagree with your version of the gospel, not who you were born to. Now if you're pretending to be a Jew, how can my rejection of you be Anti-Semitic?

Some years ago I had one of the founders of "Jews for Jesus" speak at my church. He was a New York Jew (secular) who gave his life to Jesus because of the testimony of a Puerto Rican busboy at his favorite deli. He said, "the best thing a Christian can do for a Jew is introduce him to Jesus Christ."

As a Christian I am called to win the Jewish people to Jesus and pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I am not called to "bow" to the Jewish people based on bloodline, culture or language. I do count the reestablishment of the nation of Israel important and support its continued existence. I see it as fulfillment of Biblical prophecy that points to the second coming of Christ. However, I"m disappointed over the secular nature of Israel and how closed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ they are. God will allow the Temple to be rebuilt according to His timeline, but as I read the New Testament if be used as a tool of deception of the Jewish people.

So was your mother Jewish?

Mat


Great post.
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Ok brad, then we're done, ur free from this conversation, u can go enjoy "your" new covenant.


I'm already enjoying it!

Quote:
& Yes, Torah was given @Mt Sinai, but then man perverted it & changed into a works base program "Hagar" instead by faith, Sarah. G-ds Laws have always been by faith, is the faith in Him to keep his Commandments out of love


It's convenient and sad for you to say the "covenant" given on Mt. Sinai isn't the covenant given on Mt. Sinai, but something else. Paul is plain here and in Romans 7. We died to and are released from the Law that say "you shall not covet." See Romans 7-4-9

{quote]You're stuck on the Pharisees interpretation of the Laws, instead of what G-d said. [/quote]

I think you're confused about who is stuck on the Pharisees interpretation of Laws. Nowhere does Paul say this...nowhere. What he does say is that the law that ministers death and condemnation, the law that veils hearts and minds, the law that He does not make us adequate and ministers of is the letter written and engraved on stones. See 2 Cor 3:5-18

Quote:
I have given u ample examples of this & u were silent. But that's fine all those scriptures r still in your Bible, you just got to go figure it out in prayer to G-d, because you theology has holes in it and contradictions


I'm ready to discuss Romans 7:4-9 or 2 Cor 3 or Eph 2 or Col 2 or Heb 8 and how those passages reveal the role of the OT law in a NT believer's life anytime you'd like.

Quote:
And you're right not a slave, ur supposed to be a son, & son's obey their father. If u have children u should understand this concept. Heb 12:6; because the L-rd disciplines the ones He loves, and chastens everyone He accepts as a son. And I'm sure you understand the prodigal son that did not listen to his Father....


The son obeys his father out of love, not fear that he will be kicked into outer darkness. The prodigal was welcomed home unconditionally.

Quote:
Our Father has a Way to live by faith. Heb 4:2; For unto us this gospel is preached, as well as unto them, but the Word preach to them was "unprofitable", "not" "being" *mixed* "with" *faith* by then that heard it....


The was to live by faith was demonstrated by Abraham 430 years before the law was given. The law is not of faith. It is contrary to faith.

Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”

What law is Paul talking about? The law that brings a curse if you don't do it. See verse 10.

Quote:
You gotta understand what you're reading brad, read Prov chapters 3&4


Read the whole Bible and, as Paul Harvey used to say...you'll hear the rest of the story.
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Ok brad, then we're done, ur free from this conversation, u can go enjoy "your" new covenant.


I'm already enjoying it!

Quote:
& Yes, Torah was given @Mt Sinai, but then man perverted it & changed into a works base program "Hagar" instead by faith, Sarah. G-ds Laws have always been by faith, is the faith in Him to keep his Commandments out of love


It's convenient and sad for you to say the "covenant" given on Mt. Sinai isn't the covenant given on Mt. Sinai, but something else. Paul is plain here and in Romans 7. We died to and are released from the Law that say "you shall not covet." See Romans 7-4-9

{quote]You're stuck on the Pharisees interpretation of the Laws, instead of what G-d said.


I think you're confused about who is stuck on the Pharisees interpretation of Laws. Nowhere does Paul say this...nowhere. What he does say is that the law that ministers death and condemnation, the law that veils hearts and minds, the law that He does not make us adequate and ministers of is the letter written and engraved on stones. See 2 Cor 3:5-18

Quote:
I have given u ample examples of this & u were silent. But that's fine all those scriptures r still in your Bible, you just got to go figure it out in prayer to G-d, because you theology has holes in it and contradictions


I'm ready to discuss Romans 7:4-9 or 2 Cor 3 or Eph 2 or Col 2 or Heb 8 and how those passages reveal the role of the OT law in a NT believer's life anytime you'd like.

Quote:
And you're right not a slave, ur supposed to be a son, & son's obey their father. If u have children u should understand this concept. Heb 12:6; because the L-rd disciplines the ones He loves, and chastens everyone He accepts as a son. And I'm sure you understand the prodigal son that did not listen to his Father....


The son obeys his father out of love, not fear that he will be kicked into outer darkness. The prodigal was welcomed home unconditionally.

Quote:
Our Father has a Way to live by faith. Heb 4:2; For unto us this gospel is preached, as well as unto them, but the Word preach to them was "unprofitable", "not" "being" *mixed* "with" *faith* by then that heard it....


The was to live by faith was demonstrated by Abraham 430 years before the law was given. The law is not of faith. It is contrary to faith.

Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”

What law is Paul talking about? The law that brings a curse if you don't do it. See verse 10.

Quote:
You gotta understand what you're reading brad, read Prov chapters 3&4


Read the whole Bible and, as Paul Harvey used to say...you'll hear the rest of the story.[/quote]

brad, you can't be this dense. I'm not saying that Galatians is not talking about 2 Covenants, there was only 1 Covenant given at Sinai, but two came out of it, 1 is a mans covenant....

& Paul, the Jewish Pharisee of Pharisees who knew the Torah back and forwards is not saying that the law of covetousness is done away with, that's absolutely ridiculous, and that's absolutely another gospel. You should talk to nobody about the Bible, because your witness s tainted

Gal 3:12, the Pharisees law is not a faith....brad, that's all of Paul's argument to the Galatians, it's a legalistic observance of law for salvation. Not Salvation through Y'shua🙄

Did you read what I posted Isaiah 59? I can't from my phone but I should have made that another thread. If I could I would copy and paste it and make it another thread

And I use that statement from Paul Harvey all the time😏
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... Resident Skeptic
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Mat wrote:
What OT laws are binding? The answer is whatever Jesus and the Apostles gave us as commandments in the New Testament.

Mat


& Which r those. Please, show me what Y'shua said against the Torah/Law in the NT



Matthew 24
1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

No Temple, no altar, no Holy of Holies, no morning sacrifice, no evening sacrifice, no table and bread, no lamp, no oil no light, no priesthood or levites , no feast, no prayers and no need for going to Jerusalem to be saved.

Jesus did not come to bring us under the Law or to lead us to the Law. The Jews were a chosen people to provide the Messiah for the world, the Messiah did not come to make us all Jews.

It took the destruction of the Temple (and Jerusalem), which was God's will, to demonstrate that Christianity is not just an "add-on" to the Law and Jewish culture. Some remain unconvinced to this day. As a nation, the Jews rejected the Messiah. Why, because God allowed them to be spiritually blind (as Paul said, to this day they have the covering of Moses over their eyes). I will not become as Jesus said, "the blind leading the blind" and I will not be bound by the words of a "want-to-be-playing-at-being-jewish" who is no jew.

There is only one who can save, and it ain't Moses. Is that clear enough.

Mat


Do people here struggle from anti-Semitism or something? Matt you have no idea what you're talking about I'm sorry this is totally incorrect. The destruction of the temple is because they defiled it, think about that in the New Testament, you understand what I'm saying

The destruction of the Temple, was not the destruction of the Law, Feasts, Sabbath, etc.....


Anyone who resorts to playing the "anti-Semite" card should be ignored.


I do understand why you don't see it skeptic 😶. It's kind of like smokers don't think they stink 😒


All I see is your desperation. When one like you cannot win a debate on points, they resort to character attacks. Perhaps you are a "Semite Supremacist" or "anti-Gentile" and don't see it.
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Post Isa 58:12
Ok skeptic
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Post Hey Mat brotherjames
I'll answer your question to I-A since he won't. He is a pretender. Merely as they say in Yiddish a "meshugana goyim". And all of that (meshugana) for sure. Acts-celerater
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Post Re: Hey Mat Isa 58:12
brotherjames wrote:
I'll answer your question to I-A since he won't. He is a pretender. Merely as they say in Yiddish a "meshugana goyim". And all of that (meshugana) for sure.


What have I pretended
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Post Re: What OT laws are binding? The answer is ... bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad, you can't be this dense. I'm not saying that Galatians is not talking about 2 Covenants, there was only 1 Covenant given at Sinai, but two came out of it, 1 is a mans covenant....


There are only 2 covenant spoken of in Galatians 4.
There are not 2 covenants from Mt. Sinai.

There is one covenant from Mt. Sinai which is according to the flesh.
There is one covenant from the Jerusalem which is above, which is according to the promise to Abraham God fulfilled in Christ, according to the Spirit.

Quote:
& Paul, the Jewish Pharisee of Pharisees who knew the Torah back and forwards is not saying that the law of covetousness is done away with, that's absolutely ridiculous, and that's absolutely another gospel. You should talk to nobody about the Bible, because your witness s tainted


Paul had rocks thrown at him for teaching that the Law had nothing to do with our righteousness, blessing or life, for teaching that we have died to and been released from the Law that says "you shall not covet." I really don't know how much clear the Bible can make it for you.

Quote:
Gal 3:12, the Pharisees law is not a faith....brad, that's all of Paul's argument to the Galatians, it's a legalistic observance of law for salvation. Not Salvation through Y'shua🙄


Context matters. You can't read in a different meaning than is clear in the context. The Law that is not of faith is, in the context of Galatians 3:

    1. The law that brings a curse if you don't keep it. verse 10,13
    2. The law that is written in the book of the law. verse 10
    3. The law that came 430 years after Abraham lived. verse 17
    4. The law that was added because of transgressions until the seed would come. verse 19
    5. The law that is not contrary to the promises of God. verse 20
    6. The law that, if any law ever could, tried to impart life. verse 21
    7. The law that became our tutor to lead us to Christ. verse 24

That's just the immediate chapter 3 context.
It's dense and foolish to ignore the clear context of a passage and write in your own meaning.
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Post Isa 58:12
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?


😶, Really? Why don't you just start with Mary Magdalene 🙄, I bet you think that strengthens your belief
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?


😶, Really? Why don't you just start with Mary Magdalene 🙄, I bet you think that strengthens your belief


If you're speaking of the woman caught in adultery, she was guilty and the law said to stone her. Jesus offered her no condemnation, without an apology, a confession, a request for forgiveness or a promise to do better. It is this gift of no condemnation that frees her to sin no more from a sense of love, not shame or fear.

Any other part?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?


😶, Really? Why don't you just start with Mary Magdalene 🙄, I bet you think that strengthens your belief


If you're speaking of the woman caught in adultery, she was guilty and the law said to stone her. Jesus offered her no condemnation, without an apology, a confession, a request for forgiveness or a promise to do better. It is this gift of no condemnation that frees her to sin no more from a sense of love, not shame or fear.

Any other part?


Was that it, nothing, how did Y'shua save her?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?


😶, Really? Why don't you just start with Mary Magdalene 🙄, I bet you think that strengthens your belief


If you're speaking of the woman caught in adultery, she was guilty and the law said to stone her. Jesus offered her no condemnation, without an apology, a confession, a request for forgiveness or a promise to do better. It is this gift of no condemnation that frees her to sin no more from a sense of love, not shame or fear.

Any other part?


Was that it, nothing, how did Y'shua save her?


He saved her by loving her and pointing out the folly and hypocrisy of the ministry of condemnation, the law of sin and death.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?


😶, Really? Why don't you just start with Mary Magdalene 🙄, I bet you think that strengthens your belief


If you're speaking of the woman caught in adultery, she was guilty and the law said to stone her. Jesus offered her no condemnation, without an apology, a confession, a request for forgiveness or a promise to do better. It is this gift of no condemnation that frees her to sin no more from a sense of love, not shame or fear.

Any other part?


Was that it, nothing, how did Y'shua save her?


He saved her by loving her and pointing out the folly and hypocrisy of the ministry of condemnation, the law of sin and death.


That's it just love no other way He helped her?🤔
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2/19/18 4:55 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
brad 😶, interpret John 8 for me


Which part?


😶, Really? Why don't you just start with Mary Magdalene 🙄, I bet you think that strengthens your belief


If you're speaking of the woman caught in adultery, she was guilty and the law said to stone her. Jesus offered her no condemnation, without an apology, a confession, a request for forgiveness or a promise to do better. It is this gift of no condemnation that frees her to sin no more from a sense of love, not shame or fear.

Any other part?


Was that it, nothing, how did Y'shua save her?


He saved her by loving her and pointing out the folly and hypocrisy of the ministry of condemnation, the law of sin and death.


That's it just love no other way He helped her?🤔


Love is enough. It never fails.

You're asking a different question this time. Love saved her. He helped her by setting her free from shame and condemnation.
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2/19/18 4:58 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
🤔 brad, Let's test that, if it was just love. Now love is a big part of this but that's not all, watch😇

John 8:1; Y'shua went unto the Mount of Olives 2; and early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto Him, and He sat down and taught them 3; and the scribes and Pharisees brought unto Him a woman taken in "adultery", and when they had set her in the in the midst

4; they said unto Him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery "in the very act" 5; now Moshe in the Torah Commanded us, that such should be stoned, what do You say?

6; this they said, tempting Him, that they might have to accuse Him but He stooped down and with his finger wrote on the ground as though He heard them not

7; when they continued asking Him, he lifted up Himself, and said unto them he that is without "sin" Let him cast the first stone at her

8; & again He stooped down and wrote on the ground....

Ok, this is not hard to figure out, how many does it take to be caught in adultery in the very act?🤔 Deut 17:6; at the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death

For adultery to happen it takes two people, they only had one. & And where were these "righteous" men to catch her in the act of adultery, in line? Deut 22:22; if a man be found lying with a woman married to and husband, then they shall both die, both of man that lays the with the woman and the woman so shall you put evil away from Y'srael & Lev 20:10.

Messiah knew they tried to trap Him in their lies, they only had one of the two caught in adultery, Torah says they both die. Y'shua use the Torah to save her & set her free

What did He write in the ground? Jer 17:13; O L-rd, the hope of Y'srael, all that forsake You should be ashamed, (John 8:9) and they that depart from Me shall be written in the Earth (John 8:6), because they have forsaken the L-rd, (in their lies) The Fountains of Living Water

Messiah saved her using the very Law you condemn
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2/19/18 5:17 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Ok, this is not hard to figure out, how many does it take to be caught in adultery in the very act?🤔 Deut 17:6; at the mouth of two witnesses or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death, but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death

For adultery to happen it takes two people, they only had one. & And where were these "righteous" men to catch her in the act of adultery, in line? Deut 22:22; if a man be found lying with a woman married to and husband, then they shall both die, both of man that lays the with the woman and the woman so shall you put evil away from Y'srael & Lev 20:10.

Messiah knew they tried to trap Him in their lies, they only had one of the two caught in adultery, Torah says they both die. Y'shua use the Torah to save her & set her free

What did He write in the ground? Jer 17:13; O L-rd, the hope of Y'srael, all that forsake You should be ashamed, (John 8:9) and they that depart from Me shall be written in the Earth (John 8:6), because they have forsaken the L-rd, (in their lies) The Fountains of Living Water

Messiah saved her using the very Law you condemn


Again with the creative interpretation... Let's look at the actual context.

She had numerous witnesses against her. The whole crowd were witnesses/accusers. As Paul Harvey would say...

John 8:7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

Her guilt was not in question. Even Jesus told her to "sin no more." He simply revealed their hypocrisy - they too deserved condemnation under the law.
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2/20/18 8:11 am


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