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Post JLarry
I have no problem with anyone living under the law. However anyone trying to do so may have a problem.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I don't have a desktop, but Gal 3:19-21 deals with the Promise...vs 21; is the Law then against the "promises" of God? G-d forbid, may it not be so, for if there had been a law given wish could have given life very righteousness should have been by the law

The Law does not disannul the Abrahamic Covenant of "faith" Gal 3:22; but the scripture has concluded all under sin, that's a promise by "faith" of Y'shua HaMashiach might be given to them that "believe"

Don't forget to include what was happening in the beginning of this chapter, vs 1; O "foolish" Galatians, who has "Bewitched you" that you should not obey the Truth before whose eyes Y'shua HaMashiach has been evidently set forth crucified among you?


I won't forget what was happening at the beginning of this chapter or throughout Galatians.

Peter fell into your rut in Galatians 2 when, even though he didn't live like a Jew, he acted like he was to keep James happy.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

What was the truth of the Gospel Peter was not being straightforward about? No one is compelled by the Gospel to live like Jews.

What was the error Paul battle at the beginning of chapter 3? People believing that doing the works of law would get them the Spirit, miracles, blessing and righteousness.

What was the error Paul battled in chapter 4? People wanting to be under the law.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”


To those who wanted to be under the Law (or bring the Law into the new covenant), Paul taught:
Abraham had 2 wives.
Quite simply, "these women are two covenants."
There are 2 covenants.
One from Mt. Sinai which brings produces slaves and bondage according to the flesh.
One from above which produces sons and freedom according to the Spirit.
Hagar is Mt. Sinai.
We are to cast her out.
We are to stand in that freedom and not get tangled up with that bondage again. See Gal 5:1

Quote:
Also brad, I have been thinking, the purpose of the Law is cuz of people's transgressions, breaking Torah Gal 3:19. The Law either restrain sin Rom 3:23-24, brings the knowledge of sin Rom 3:20, 7:7, or provokes sin Rom 5:20.

The Torah exist to provide is people with opportunities to observe G-ds Will


Romans 3:23,24 does NOT say the law restrains sin. In fact, it reveals the weakness and uselessness of the Law to stop sin by confirming that it restrained no one during its 1,500 years of existence...that all have sinned and falled short of His glory.

The Law formerly existed to foreshadow Christ and to bring us to and end of trying to be like God by our knowledge of good and evil. Then the seed came. Now that faith has come we have died to the law and been released from the law (see Rom 7:4-6). And what law have we died to and been released from? The law that said "thou shalt not covet" (See Rom 7:7). So the Law no longer exists to either foreshadow Christ or to bring us to an end of ourselves (because we don't try to keep it). It can't curse, condemn or kill us. We are dead to it and released from it through His death.

Paul says "if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on the law." But life doesn't come to those keep the Law, it is "given to those who believe."

So, contrary to what you say, the Law cannot impart life by us keeping it, only death. It is the seed that gives righteousness, life and blessing - we simply put our faith in His finished work of fulfilling the Law, removing our lawlessness and being raised with our new life.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I don't have a desktop, but Gal 3:19-21 deals with the Promise...vs 21; is the Law then against the "promises" of God? G-d forbid, may it not be so, for if there had been a law given wish could have given life very righteousness should have been by the law

The Law does not disannul the Abrahamic Covenant of "faith" Gal 3:22; but the scripture has concluded all under sin, that's a promise by "faith" of Y'shua HaMashiach might be given to them that "believe"

Don't forget to include what was happening in the beginning of this chapter, vs 1; O "foolish" Galatians, who has "Bewitched you" that you should not obey the Truth before whose eyes Y'shua HaMashiach has been evidently set forth crucified among you?


I won't forget what was happening at the beginning of this chapter or throughout Galatians.

Peter fell into your rut in Galatians 2 when, even though he didn't live like a Jew, he acted like he was to keep James happy.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

What was the truth of the Gospel Peter was not being straightforward about? No one is compelled by the Gospel to live like Jews.

What was the error Paul battle at the beginning of chapter 3? People believing that doing the works of law would get them the Spirit, miracles, blessing and righteousness.

What was the error Paul battled in chapter 4? People wanting to be under the law.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
“Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”


To those who wanted to be under the Law (or bring the Law into the new covenant), Paul taught:
Abraham had 2 wives.
Quite simply, "these women are two covenants."
There are 2 covenants.
One from Mt. Sinai which brings produces slaves and bondage according to the flesh.
One from above which produces sons and freedom according to the Spirit.
Hagar is Mt. Sinai.
We are to cast her out.
We are to stand in that freedom and not get tangled up with that bondage again. See Gal 5:1

Quote:
Also brad, I have been thinking, the purpose of the Law is cuz of people's transgressions, breaking Torah Gal 3:19. The Law either restrain sin Rom 3:23-24, brings the knowledge of sin Rom 3:20, 7:7, or provokes sin Rom 5:20.

The Torah exist to provide is people with opportunities to observe G-ds Will


Romans 3:23,24 does NOT say the law restrains sin. In fact, it reveals the weakness and uselessness of the Law to stop sin by confirming that it restrained no one during its 1,500 years of existence...that all have sinned and falled short of His glory.

The Law formerly existed to foreshadow Christ and to bring us to and end of trying to be like God by our knowledge of good and evil. Then the seed came. Now that faith has come we have died to the law and been released from the law (see Rom 7:4-6). And what law have we died to and been released from? The law that said "thou shalt not covet" (See Rom 7:7). So the Law no longer exists to either foreshadow Christ or to bring us to an end of ourselves (because we don't try to keep it). It can't curse, condemn or kill us. We are dead to it and released from it through His death.

Paul says "if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on the law." But life doesn't come to those keep the Law, it is "given to those who believe."

So, contrary to what you say, the Law cannot impart life by us keeping it, only death. It is the seed that gives righteousness, life and blessing - we simply put our faith in His finished work of fulfilling the Law, removing our lawlessness and being raised with our new life.


Ur right brad, Peter was not being straight forward in the Truth, Torah Ps 119:160 in Gal 2:11. He feared the Orthodox Jews who followed Jewish practices outside of Torah. Vs 15; we know ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile "sinners" (Idol worshippers, do not keep Torah) vs16; we 'know' that a person is Justified "not" by The "Works" of law, (Acts 15:1) but through faith in Y'shua. Paul is opposing the views of his traditionalists opponents, Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees. Obviously different beliefs.

Gal 4:21, continuing the thought of the Orthodox beliefs outside of Torah, haggar & true Torah beliefs faith in the Messiah Y'shua coming down with the New Jerusalem from heaven. Hagar was works which created Ishmael, not the promise from Sarah, free woman "creating" Isaac, I promise. Hagar is slavery in bondage into Jewish laws "created" above Torah. Vs 26 but Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of all of us

Ps 118:89: "Forever" O L-rd Your Word is settled in heaven (Isa 40:8) why is it not settled in the Earth? Matt 6:10; Your Kingdom come, Your Will "be done" in earth "as it is" in heaven. It's a mirror image brad we r supposed to have, but like back then we had religious systems that changed the word of G-d and give people different rules opposite of what G-d said. Our Creator has a particular statement in the heavens that he wants to see in the Earth, it's a Heavenly pattern.

PS 97:6; the heavens declare His Righteousness, and all the people see His Glory. Ps 85:11; Truth shall spring out of the Earth, and Righteousness to look down from heaven

And just so you know the book of Galatians does not Trump these three versus right here about not keeping Torah. Even the verses that we just went through or not talking about not keeping Torah, there talking about not having to keep a religious system outside of Y'shua outside of Torah

It just comes down to this, if you throw out the Law you throughout Y'shua, He is the Living Torah. & By throwing out the Law / Torah you throw it all the blessings that come with it by being obedient. Your stuck on one view of law, & it's in a bad light. Just like there's only one Greek word for Law and it doesn't Encompass the whole word, it to is in a bad light, you're not getting the total meaning. I encourage you to go outside of your denominational gates and do some research for yourself, research Torah

Shalom
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Ur right brad, Peter was not being straight forward in the Truth, Torah Ps 119:160 in Gal 2:11. He feared the Orthodox Jews who followed Jewish practices outside of Torah.


I suppose if you read enough into the text, you can get anywhere you want. Laughing No, they were the "party of the circumcision." Circumcision is not outside of the Law. See Exo. 12:44,48 and Lev. 12:3

Quote:
Gal 4:21, continuing the thought of the Orthodox beliefs outside of Torah,


You're still running with your inserted thoughts? Paul says Hagar is Mt. Sinai. He doesn't say Hagar is "all that people added after Mt. Sinai."

Quote:
Hagar is slavery in bondage into Jewish laws "created" above Torah. Vs 26 but Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of all of us


There is simple nothing in the text to indicate that Hagar is anything but the old covenant given on Mt. Sinai. Paul says "these woman are two covenants." He then says "Hagar is Mt. Sinai."

Quote:
It just comes down to this, if you throw out the Law you throughout Y'shua, He is the Living Torah. .


Right...

In 2 Cor 3 for example, Paul calls the letter written and engraved on stones, the ministry of death and the ministry of condemnation. What part of the Law was written and engraved on stones? The 10 commandments.

Jesus is not the letter that kills. The thief kills, He came that we might have life.
Jesus is not the letter that condemns. There is no condemnation in Him and God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world.

If you're wondering if the Jesus is the letter, Paul answered that in 2 Cor 3 very directly.

2 Cor 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,...
...17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


No, the Lord isn't the letter that kills. "The Lord is the Spirit" that gives life.
God doesn't makes us adequate as ministers of the letters written and engraved on stones, but as servants of a new covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus isn't the mortgage. He paid the mortgage. Now you can tear up and throw out that paid mortgage or you can keep making payments on a paid mortgage. You're trying to earn blessings that Jesus already secured for us...every spiritual blessing in Heavenly places (Eph 1:3).

Now, with Christ, God has freely given us all things. There's nothing to work for from God. We labor for people to come to faith, not to get stuff that Jesus already paid for.

Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

Quote:
& By throwing out the Law / Torah you throw it all the blessings that come with it by being obedient


I think you missed this passage if you think blessings come by being obedient to the Law.

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

That's pretty simple: Believe and you ARE blessed. Try to keep the Law for blessing and you're cursed.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

We are already blessed.

James 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

When we look intently as the perfect law, the law of freedom not the weak, useless and obsolete law of Mt. Sinai, not Hagar that produces bondage (see Gal 4), we experience blessing in our deeds.

Our perfect law is not the letter (the law of sin and death) which produces bondage, its the Spirit (the law of the Spirit of life in Christ) which produces liberty. Where the Spirit is, there is liberty.

Quote:
Your stuck on one view of law, & it's in a bad light. Just like there's only one Greek word for Law and it doesn't Encompass the whole word, it to is in a bad light, you're not getting the total meaning. I encourage you to go outside of your denominational gates and do some research for yourself, research Torah

Shalom


I'm not stuck. You're stuck using old covenant language and inserting thoughts that simply aren't in the plain text to try to resuscitate an weak, useless and obsolete covenant - a paid mortgage. You should use the words of the new testament writers to understand the difference the cross made.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Ur right brad, Peter was not being straight forward in the Truth, Torah Ps 119:160 in Gal 2:11. He feared the Orthodox Jews who followed Jewish practices outside of Torah.


I suppose if you read enough into the text, you can get anywhere you want. Laughing No, they were the "party of the circumcision." Circumcision is not outside of the Law. See Exo. 12:44,48 and Lev. 12:3

Quote:
Gal 4:21, continuing the thought of the Orthodox beliefs outside of Torah,


You're still running with your inserted thoughts? Paul says Hagar is Mt. Sinai. He doesn't say Hagar is "all that people added after Mt. Sinai."

Quote:
Hagar is slavery in bondage into Jewish laws "created" above Torah. Vs 26 but Jerusalem which is above is free which is the mother of all of us


There is simple nothing in the text to indicate that Hagar is anything but the old covenant given on Mt. Sinai. Paul says "these woman are two covenants." He then says "Hagar is Mt. Sinai."

Quote:
It just comes down to this, if you throw out the Law you throughout Y'shua, He is the Living Torah. .


Right...

In 2 Cor 3 for example, Paul calls the letter written and engraved on stones, the ministry of death and the ministry of condemnation. What part of the Law was written and engraved on stones? The 10 commandments.

Jesus is not the letter that kills. The thief kills, He came that we might have life.
Jesus is not the letter that condemns. There is no condemnation in Him and God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world.

If you're wondering if the Jesus is the letter, Paul answered that in 2 Cor 3 very directly.

2 Cor 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,...
...17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


No, the Lord isn't the letter that kills. "The Lord is the Spirit" that gives life.
God doesn't makes us adequate as ministers of the letters written and engraved on stones, but as servants of a new covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus isn't the mortgage. He paid the mortgage. Now you can tear up and throw out that paid mortgage or you can keep making payments on a paid mortgage. You're trying to earn blessings that Jesus already secured for us...every spiritual blessing in Heavenly places (Eph 1:3).

Now, with Christ, God has freely given us all things. There's nothing to work for from God. We labor for people to come to faith, not to get stuff that Jesus already paid for.

Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

Quote:
& By throwing out the Law / Torah you throw it all the blessings that come with it by being obedient


I think you missed this passage if you think blessings come by being obedient to the Law.

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

That's pretty simple: Believe and you ARE blessed. Try to keep the Law for blessing and you're cursed.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

We are already blessed.

James 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

When we look intently as the perfect law, the law of freedom not the weak, useless and obsolete law of Mt. Sinai, not Hagar that produces bondage (see Gal 4), we experience blessing in our deeds.

Our perfect law is not the letter (the law of sin and death) which produces bondage, its the Spirit (the law of the Spirit of life in Christ) which produces liberty. Where the Spirit is, there is liberty.

Quote:
Your stuck on one view of law, & it's in a bad light. Just like there's only one Greek word for Law and it doesn't Encompass the whole word, it to is in a bad light, you're not getting the total meaning. I encourage you to go outside of your denominational gates and do some research for yourself, research Torah

Shalom


I'm not stuck. You're stuck using old covenant language and inserting thoughts that simply aren't in the plain text to try to resuscitate an weak, useless and obsolete covenant - a paid mortgage. You should use the words of the new testament writers to understand the difference the cross made.


You never going to get it brad if you keep trying to understand the Old Testament with the new. And sadly Isa 28:12 is for u, they would not hear. You talk about something you know nothing about brad, and that's concerning.
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Post Dave Dorsey
Isa 58:12 wrote:
You never going to get it brad if you keep trying to understand the Old Testament with the new. And sadly Isa 28:12 is for u, they would not hear.

Isaiah 28:11-13: "For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the Lord will speak to this people, to whom he has said, “This is rest; give rest to the weary; and this is repose”; yet they would not hear. And the word of the Lord will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

If irony could be used as fuel, your post could take humanity to Mars.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
You never going to get it brad if you keep trying to understand the Old Testament with the new. And sadly Isa 28:12 is for u, they would not hear. You talk about something you know nothing about brad, and that's concerning.


Laughing Do you mean I won't agree with you if I insist on reading the whole Bible?

Can you at least engage in a dialogue about the NT Scripture I posted without ignoring it?
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
You never going to get it brad if you keep trying to understand the Old Testament with the new. And sadly Isa 28:12 is for u, they would not hear. You talk about something you know nothing about brad, and that's concerning.


Laughing Do you mean I won't agree with you if I insist on reading the whole Bible?

Can you at least engage in a dialogue about the NT Scripture I posted without ignoring it?


Sure, right after u pull out Laws in the Torah that r binding that I have been asking u, while u ignore it 😉 That would make for a great NT dialogue. & I'm not talking about the sacrificial Laws, Temple Laws or High Priest Laws
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Sure, right after u pull out Laws in the Torah that r binding that I have been asking u, while u ignore it 😉 That would make for a great NT dialogue. & I'm not talking about the sacrificial Laws, Temple Laws or High Priest Laws


I did. Read OP in my thread entitled: Which of the 613 OT laws are "binding?"

The short answer: NONE

Now will you engage in dialogue about the NT scripture I posted.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Sure, right after u pull out Laws in the Torah that r binding that I have been asking u, while u ignore it 😉 That would make for a great NT dialogue. & I'm not talking about the sacrificial Laws, Temple Laws or High Priest Laws


I did. Read OP in my thread entitled: Which of the 613 OT laws are "binding?"

The short answer: NONE

Now will you engage in dialogue about the NT scripture I posted.


Sure brad, u have said countless times the Law is binding,
now it's not? 😶. Well, which ones do u not have to keep or do anymore, since they are not binding? Heck, pick 1, where's dave he can help u
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
is binding,
now it's not? 😶. Well, which ones do u not have to keep or do anymore, since they are not binding? Heck, pick 1, where's dave he can help u


There is not 1 single OT commandment that you have to keep now as a condition of righteousness, blessing and life. All that was was given on Mt. Sinai is now obsolete and must be cast out.
We are led by the Spirit, not the letter.
We are taught by the Spirit, not the letter.
We serve in newness of the Spirit, not in oldness of the letter.
He makes us adequate as ministers of the Spirit, not the letter.

The Gospel is not just for those with the strength or wisdom to keep OT commands. It is for the weak, the foolish and the ungodly.

No one will be boasting that they earned righteousness, blessing or life because they were strong enough, or wise enough earn life by their flesh. Your flesh and blood cannot/will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 1:26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

No, it is "by His doing you are in Christ" , not your doing.
Christ became to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. His is our righteousness and holiness.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
is binding,
now it's not? 😶. Well, which ones do u not have to keep or do anymore, since they are not binding? Heck, pick 1, where's dave he can help u


There is not 1 single OT commandment that you have to keep now as a condition of righteousness, blessing and life. All that was was given on Mt. Sinai is now obsolete and must be cast out.
We are led by the Spirit, not the letter.
We are taught by the Spirit, not the letter.
We serve in newness of the Spirit, not in oldness of the letter.
He makes us adequate as ministers of the Spirit, not the letter.

The Gospel is not just for those with the strength or wisdom to keep OT commands. It is for the weak, the foolish and the ungodly.

No one will be boasting that they earned righteousness, blessing or life because they were strong enough, or wise enough earn life by their flesh. Your flesh and blood cannot/will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 1:26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

No, it is "by His doing you are in Christ" , not your doing.
Christ became to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. His is our righteousness and holiness.


😉 brad, none of the Laws are a condition of Righteousness, they are right is Commands and there for our Righteousness Deut 6:25, Right standing with G-d. & So there's not 1 OT Commandments we have to keep? That just shows me you didn't read any of the 613 Commands, and that shows me you don't understand the Commands the New Testament because they're all Old Testament Commands. Let me ask you a question what about the 10 Words/Commandments, do they stand for the believer to keep?
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Post Isa 58:12
Btw brad, your view on the Law @ Mount Sinai was just for the Jews, now Christians live by a different standard is called dual theology, it does not work in the Bible. That is a different gospel and very dangerous.

You even Live different than Y'shua did 😶. That's something you should think about
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Post Another BTW lol Isa 58:12
G-d delivered his people from Egypt, a type of sin, lawlessness, then He gave them His Laws/Ways. When we get called and pulled out of our own Egypt, sins, lawlessness..., then He gives us the same Law's, Ways in Y'shua 😇[/b]
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Post Here guys Isa 58:12
Let me just put down 3 Laws & I want you to think about them, where have you heard these before?🤔

Ex 21:12; he that smites a man, so that he dies, shall surely be put to death

Ex 21:16; and he that steals a man, and sells him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death

Ex 21:17; and he that curses his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death

Have you heard these three Laws somewhere before?🤔 Murder, stealing, disrespecting your parents, they sound familiar?😉
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
😉 brad, none of the Laws are a condition of Righteousness, they are right is Commands and there for our Righteousness Deut 6:25, Right standing with G-d. & So there's not 1 OT Commandments we have to keep? That just shows me you didn't read any of the 613 Commands, and that shows me you don't understand the Commands the New Testament because they're all Old Testament Commands. Let me ask you a question what about the 10 Words/Commandments, do they stand for the believer to keep?


As I've repeatedly said, we don't have to keep ANY of the OT commands as a condition of righteousness, blessing or life. No part of the Law has anything to do with our righteousness, blessing or life.

Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith. 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”

Rom 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.” 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;

Rom 4:13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified;

The 10 commandments:

All these scriptures are listed below:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

Rom 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.

Rom 4:15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

The Law and the Spirit are as different as life is from death, righteousness is from condemnation, freedom is from bondage, light is from darkness and sonship is from slavery.

The OT commands were there for self-righteousness, a righteousness of your own. Even the OT command to love our neighbor is to love our neighbor as you love yourself. It's self-love as the standard. Our NT love is His selfless love. See John 13:34

I've read ALL the 613 commands. We don't have to keep ANY of them as a condition of righteousness, blessing or life. Jesus IS our righteousness (2 Cor 5:21; 2 Cor 30,31; Phil. 3:9, blessing (Eph 1:3; Rom 8:32) and life (Col 3:3,4). We've received the righteousness of God on the basis of faith, not works. We've been created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph 4:24).

The NT commands are to simply believe and love as He loved us. John 3:16; John 13:34; 1 John 3:23
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Post Isa 58:12
Dude, brad, I spoke too soon LOL I just thanked you for keeping your post short, I was wrong LOL 🙄. Oh where do I start? I still don't see any commands in the law in the Old Testament that you going to show me that are binding or out of date or obsolete.

So when you say you don't have to keep the anymore OT Laws ur saying it's okay to murder, it's okay to have sex with your family, it's okay to have sex with animals, it's okay to steal, it's okay not to believe in G-d, or the Old Testament G-d in your mind.

& The OT Laws are not self righteous Laws, again that's the Pharisees in the New Testament. And if that's all you had to do was live by faith and love, then who's the bride, who's going to get out of here when he comes for her because most nominations believe in Y'shua & love. The Bible says the small Remnant to to get out of here, so who, if that's the only two requirements? 🙄😶

And you can't find anywhere on the side just said keep those two like I just showed you in another thread Matthew 19:17 keep His Commandments

The law is not for justification, the law is not for justification, the law is not for justification. No I don't ever want to see this verse again LOL. It's about blessings and well-being it's not about justification, that was the Pharisees problem

& And what are you saying, you don't have to keep the 10 Words/Commandments? Then how can you call yourself a disciple of the Master when you do everything opposite from what He said what He did and how He lived. That is another gospel my friend. No wonder why G-d has you spending your life and Galatians to try to make "your" point where you stand, He is speaking to you😶

I'm going to type out Isaiah 59 which is for you and anyone else with that kind of mindset, so if you want to go and read it, go ahead. This message will tie into all Texts, Torah, Prophets, & New Testament[/b]
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Post Isa 58:12
Let me simplify this for you brad or anyone with a question, does the believer at the keep the 10 Words/ Commandments?
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So when you say you don't have to keep the anymore OT Laws ur saying it's okay to murder, it's okay to have sex with your family, it's okay to have sex with animals, it's okay to steal, it's okay not to believe in G-d, or the Old Testament G-d in your mind.


No one says this.

Quote:
& The OT Laws are not self righteous Laws, again that's the Pharisees in the New Testament. And if that's all you had to do was live by faith and love, then who's the bride, who's going to get out of here when he comes for her because most nominations believe in Y'shua & love. The Bible says the small Remnant to to get out of here, so who, if that's the only two requirements? 🙄😶


Where is this scripture?

Under the old covenant, few found life.
Under the new covenant "many" will be saved, not few.

Mat 8:11 I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.


Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

This ain't no remnant. No, His plan succeeded.

Quote:
And you can't find anywhere on the side just said keep those two like I just showed you in another thread Matthew 19:17 keep His Commandments


And, as I showed you in another post, Jesus said finding life through the commandments is impossible.

Mat 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

What was impossible? To find life through the commandments.
With God is was possible. God did it for us at the cross. Paul said it this way:

Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What was impossible for us through the Law, God did through His Son.

Quote:
The law is not for justification, the law is not for justification, the law is not for justification. No I don't ever want to see this verse again LOL. It's about blessings and well-being it's not about justification, that was the Pharisees problem


The law brings a curse, not a blessing.
Faith brings a blessing. Read this nice and slow:

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Those who are of faith blessed.
Those who are of the works of the law are under a curse.


Pretty simple.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Quote:
& And what are you saying, you don't have to keep the 10 Words/Commandments? Then how can you call yourself a disciple of the Master when you do everything opposite from what He said what He did and how He lived. That is another gospel my friend. No wonder why G-d has you spending your life and Galatians to try to make "your" point where you stand, He is speaking to you😶


Love is the fulfilment of the Law. See Rom 13:9 and Gal 5:14. Christ has moved inside of me and loves people (fulfills the law) through me. His selfless love for God and for people exceeds the love requirement of the Law.

Paul identified the "other" Gospel, which is not good news in Galatians 1.

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

It's the message that is "disturbing." Disturbing - from the Greek "tarasso" which means - put in motion (to agitate back-and-forth, shake to-and-fro); (figuratively) to set in motion what needs to remain still (at ease);

Your message, which isn't good news at all, takes people who are free from the works of the law and puts that back to work for blessings. We found rest in Him and we will remain at rest, seated with Him at rest in Heavenly places.

Yours the message that brings a curse - the disturbing and distorted message that Peter fell into in Gal 2, that Paul rebuked in Gal 3, that we are to cast out in Gal 4, that we are free from in Gal 5 and that we will not sow into in Gal 6.

See Gal 3:10 if you're not sure which message brings a curse.

Quote:
I'm going to type out Isaiah 59 which is for you and anyone else with that kind of mindset, so if you want to go and read it, go ahead. This message will tie into all Texts, Torah, Prophets, & New Testament[/b]


You should start your Isaiah 59 typing in Isaiah 52 then you'll see that a change is coming, then look at Isaiah 53 to see how God effected that change, then look at Isaiah 54 and 55 to see what that new covenant looks like, how it's free and everlasting.
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So when you say you don't have to keep the anymore OT Laws ur saying it's okay to murder, it's okay to have sex with your family, it's okay to have sex with animals, it's okay to steal, it's okay not to believe in G-d, or the Old Testament G-d in your mind.


No one says this.

Quote:
& The OT Laws are not self righteous Laws, again that's the Pharisees in the New Testament. And if that's all you had to do was live by faith and love, then who's the bride, who's going to get out of here when he comes for her because most nominations believe in Y'shua & love. The Bible says the small Remnant to to get out of here, so who, if that's the only two requirements? 🙄😶


Where is this scripture?

Under the old covenant, few found life.
Under the new covenant "many" will be saved, not few.

Mat 8:11 I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.


Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

This ain't no remnant. No, His plan succeeded.

Quote:
And you can't find anywhere on the side just said keep those two like I just showed you in another thread Matthew 19:17 keep His Commandments


And, as I showed you in another post, Jesus said finding life through the commandments is impossible.

Mat 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

What was impossible? To find life through the commandments.
With God is was possible. God did it for us at the cross. Paul said it this way:

Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What was impossible for us through the Law, God did through His Son.

Quote:
The law is not for justification, the law is not for justification, the law is not for justification. No I don't ever want to see this verse again LOL. It's about blessings and well-being it's not about justification, that was the Pharisees problem


The law brings a curse, not a blessing.
Faith brings a blessing. Read this nice and slow:

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Those who are of faith blessed.
Those who are of the works of the law are under a curse.


Pretty simple.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Quote:
& And what are you saying, you don't have to keep the 10 Words/Commandments? Then how can you call yourself a disciple of the Master when you do everything opposite from what He said what He did and how He lived. That is another gospel my friend. No wonder why G-d has you spending your life and Galatians to try to make "your" point where you stand, He is speaking to you😶


Love is the fulfilment of the Law. See Rom 13:9 and Gal 5:14. Christ has moved inside of me and loves people (fulfills the law) through me. His selfless love for God and for people exceeds the love requirement of the Law.

Paul identified the "other" Gospel, which is not good news in Galatians 1.

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

It's the message that is "disturbing." Disturbing - from the Greek "tarasso" which means - put in motion (to agitate back-and-forth, shake to-and-fro); (figuratively) to set in motion what needs to remain still (at ease);

Your message, which isn't good news at all, takes people who are free from the works of the law and puts that back to work for blessings. We found rest in Him and we will remain at rest, seated with Him at rest in Heavenly places.

Yours the message that brings a curse - the disturbing and distorted message that Peter fell into in Gal 2, that Paul rebuked in Gal 3, that we are to cast out in Gal 4, that we are free from in Gal 5 and that we will not sow into in Gal 6.

See Gal 3:10 if you're not sure which message brings a curse.

Quote:
I'm going to type out Isaiah 59 which is for you and anyone else with that kind of mindset, so if you want to go and read it, go ahead. This message will tie into all Texts, Torah, Prophets, & New Testament[/b]


You should start your Isaiah 59 typing in Isaiah 52 then you'll see that a change is coming, then look at Isaiah 53 to see how God effected that change, then look at Isaiah 54 and 55 to see what that new covenant looks like, how it's free and everlasting.


brad, you drive me insane, this is way too long I cannot do this from my phone. When you see it's getting long start a new thread with your points 😶. Dude, Galatians is not saying what you think it is saying about the law. Because then you run into a theological nightmare and a Bible that contradicts itself.

I'm just going to use you're theology on Gal & set it next to, oh say, Prov 3;1-2; My son, forget "not" My Law, Torah but let your heart keep My Commandments, for length of days and long life and peace shall they add.. now the brad thought; Christ redeemed us from the Law....😶, The law brings a curse not a blessing 😶😕.I...,Do you see how ridiculous that is, it doesn't work that's a big contradiction. Stop trying to add your interpretation to what G-d says, I think He knows more than you 😏
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