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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Ok brad, I see ur cherry picking Scriptures out of context trying to make something that's not there


Someone posts a thorough post filled with Scripture: "OH MY GOODNESS IT'S LIKE GONE WITH THE WIND, no one could ever read that much! Please just post one or two! I'M ON A PHONE!"

Someone posts a couple of verses: "Oh I can see you're just gonna cherry pick a verse here or there"

What a joke!
.

Lol, I know, I couldn't stop. But see you can't interpret the Bible with just one verse & stand on a position & think that's what it means when it stands in opposition of the rest of the scriptures in the Bible

But I do see you like my Gone With the Wind comment LOL😂😂😂. But did you see what I did dave, I let the Bible interpret the Bible in the same chapter 😉

Shalom
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Post Dave Dorsey
No one's trying to do that. Brad respected you enough to make lengthy posts filled with Scripture. Then you filibustered like a child about the length of his post and demanded he post just one or two, then you have the absolute gall to get on your high horse and start lecturing about how the Bible can't be interpreted with just one or two verses.

You are one of the most disingenuous people I have ever seen.
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2/12/18 9:45 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
No one's trying to do that. Brad respected you enough to make lengthy posts filled with Scripture. Then you filibustered like a child about the length of his post and demanded he post just one or two, then you have the absolute gall to get on your high horse and start lecturing about how the Bible can't be interpreted with just one or two verses.

You are one of the most disingenuous people I have ever seen.


R serious dave? I went back to look at the post brad made to see if mine was that long, I couldn't tell when I was typing it. Mine is not even halfway as long as his and you're mad at me? Or are you mad at the Truth I just laid down because it clearly goes against everything that you say against G-d's Laws. And I am not against you or anyone here, I am not prideful about one thing. Why don't you go through the scriptures I laid down & see for urself.

Btw, I'm still waiting for you to point out to me the Laws that are binding
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Post Dave Dorsey
Sure, let me take my time to write a thoughtful and lengthy post about a New Covenant view of the Law so you can dismiss it without interacting with a single thing I say and refer me to your Bible lesson.

Who wouldn't be eager to take their time to do that?
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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Sure, let me take my time to write a thoughtful and lengthy post about a New Covenant view of the Law so you can dismiss it without interacting with a single thing I say and refer me to your Bible lesson.

Who wouldn't be eager to take their time to do that?


No please, do it, give me your N.T. explanation of the Laws in the Torah. Please, show me the ones that are binding in the New Testament. But don't get all upset when Truth comes out, and it will. But my friend, the Truth will come out when you find that you can't show me any Laws binding upon Believers in the Torah. That's why you haven't done it yet

Shalom my friend
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2/12/18 10:12 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Start with the posts Brad has already made. If you can respect him and engage with his thoughts and have a legitimate conversation, maybe others will want to engage with you also. Acts-perienced Poster
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2/13/18 6:57 am


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Start with the posts Brad has already made. If you can respect him and engage with his thoughts and have a legitimate conversation, maybe others will want to engage with you also.


Well I did answer dave, remember? I hope brad can find it & work the Scriptures in prayer asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the Truths
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Post Dave Dorsey
No you didn't. You complained about the length of his post and ignored it. If you want people to engage with you, show that you are capable of respecting people and engaging intelligently with the arguments and posts they have already made. Acts-perienced Poster
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2/13/18 8:18 am


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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
No you didn't. You complained about the length of his post and ignored it. If you want people to engage with you, show that you are capable of respecting people and engaging intelligently with the arguments and posts they have already made.


.dave..... I answered his scriptures which is now on page 5 of this thread.... Don't you remember you were complaining saying that my thread was too long when in all actuality dave, it's not even half the size

What do you have to say about what I typed on Romans 8. Or better yet where's your scriptures out of the law that are binding for the Believers today. I've been asking you that for sometime now and you been ignoring me

That doctrinal position of the law being done away with is very dangerous, very dangerous. You guys have presented to me where you believe the Bible is speaking of the law and his removal for some time now. I always give the scriptures and the understanding in all text of the Bible but that is not true.

So I've just asked you dave, to pull out the law in the Torah that is binding and useless. And if you can't, praise G-d, He's showing you something, you don't got to be mad at me all the time 😉
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2/13/18 8:38 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Brad already did that. And you ignored/discarded his verse by verse effort at engaging in discussion with you.

I consider Matthew 7:6 to be binding instruction, so unless you can demonstrate a capacity to engage with an argument fairly and genuinely, I'm not going to waste my time presenting one, and I doubt others will either.

And the pride and blindness of your heart will probably lead you to interpret that as evidence that you're right and no one can answer you, and while that is tragic, the rest of us nevertheless have to obey the instruction of Proverbs 26:4.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
U said Rom 8:3: for what the Law could not do, in that it was weak through the "flesh"(through the flesh, what we want, not Torah), G-d sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, "condemned"(vs1) sin in the "flesh".


You are defining "flesh" to be "what we want, not Torah." What scripture do you base this on?

Paul just described what the "flesh" was in Romans 7.

Rom 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

The Law is all about the flesh - foods we eat, washings, what tribe you are born in. When we were under Law (Rm 6:14), we "were in the flesh" (Rm 7:5), now that we are in the Spirit (Rm. 8:9), we "are not in the flesh."

Rom 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The determination of whether or not we are "in the flesh" or "in the Spirit" is not "do you keep Torah?" It is "are you born again of the Spirit?"

So now that we are no longer under the ministry of condemnation and death (the Law), the lawless deeds we commit "in the flesh" can "no longer" condemn us.

Rom 7:17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Our walk is no longer about the flesh, keeping Torah, being Jewish, keeping feasts. Our service is no longer in the oldness of the letter, it is in the newness of the Spirit.

The Law, properly understood, is Spiritual. It foreshadowed Christ, it was written about Him. The Law testified of Him and was for Him to fulfill, not us. The Law was not Christ. Christ could not and would not bear witness of Himself. When you view the Law through the eyes of the flesh, you see yourself, your failures, your inability to find life in it. When view the Law as Spiritual, you see a testimony of Jesus, foreshadowings of Christ, prophecy about Christ, how He fulfilled all of the Law, you find life in Him. The Law, given 2,500 years into human history was simply given to preach Him until He would come. Now that He has come, we are no longer under that ministry. We can still preach Jesus from it. We don't preach ourselves from it because we can't find life in it if we view as something for our flesh to do or be.

John 5:31 “If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies of Me, and I know that the testimony which He gives about Me is true...39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

So the Law is good and holy. It has simply fulfilled its purpose in preaching Jesus and is now obsolete. It was always perfect at the Spirit purpose of preaching Him and always weak and useless to perfect anyone or give life to anyone through their own human flesh.

This is what Paul meant when he said we validate the Law - we validate its purpose to testify as a witness would, of Him! He doesn't bear witness of Himself.

Rom 4:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;...31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

NEXT 1 OR 2 SCRIPTURES: (OK, I used 3 more to interpret 1)

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

The Law was "added." So it has a beginning, don't you agree?
It was added "until the seed would come." So it has an end, don't you agree?

So the Law not eternal. The One it spoke of is. It's fulfillment in Him is.

Paul says "if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on the law." But life doesn't come to those keep the Law, it is "given to those who believe." So, contrary to what you say, the Law cannot impart life by us keeping it, only death. It is the seed that gives righteousness, life and blessing - we simply put our faith in His finished work of fulfilling the Law, removing our lawlessness and being raised with our new life.

Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me;

Christ, the seed who was to come, is the only one who could fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law. He fulfilled them and then set His righteousness to the account of all who believe. The Law was added until He came. When He came and fulfilled it, He ended it as the impossible standard for righteousness and life.

Now the Law has nothing to do with our righteousness.

Rom 10:3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved


Gal 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Righteous - from the Greek dikaios

in the broad sense, the state of him who is such as he ought to be, righteousness; the condition acceptable to God;
a. universally: λόγος τῆς δικαιοσύνης (like λόγος τῆς καταλλαγῆς, λόγος τοῦ σταυροῦ), the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain to a state approved of God,


We don't gain approval or acceptance from God by keeping the Law.
We can't be "as we ought to be" through the Law.
If we could, Jesus didn't need to come and die, we could have saved ourselves.

The Law has nothing to do with our righteousness, blessing or life. It was written to testify about Jesus and for Him to finish. He finished it.

Read this carefully and let's discuss Galatians 3:19-22.
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Post Isa 58:12
Lol, oh my gosh!! U guys lol & ur long posts 🙄. I was reading the other looooooooong one & I will have to do that later. Then i come over here & wow!!, Look..... another long one 😕

Look brad, I do this from my phone, if u could break these up that will help me answer u. I can't quote a thread & work on it with my phone, it won't let me use the buttons on top like quoting what u said. & If I quote the whole thing it will be waaaaaaaay too long and no one will read it or understand it.

I have no problems with what you're asking, I just have a problem in my answering them with the length of them. I can't understand why you think you got to make them so long.

Look, I want to talk about this stuff, make your questions not so long and don't try to entangle other scriptures you think Hold Your Position. I already did reveal to your Romans 8 in your thinking, how it is not correct I even used Galatians in it. Ask me a couple of verses @ once please
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Post Isa 58:12
& G-ds Laws are FOR our Righteousness Deut 6:25; and it "shall be" OUR Righteousness, "if" we observe to do "all" these Commandments before the L-rd Our G-d as He has Commanded "us"
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Post Dave Dorsey
Dude, forget about the other posts. See if you can focus your mind on reading and comprehending the single post Brad just made. See if you can understand the arguments he is attempting to make to you and see if you can offer a point by point rebuttal.

My suggestion is to forget any other post exists. Read the one Brad just made. Focus on it. Try to understand it. And see if you can engage with it in reply.
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& G-ds Laws are FOR our Righteousness Deut 6:25; and it "shall be" OUR Righteousness, "if" we observe to do "all" these Commandments before the L-rd Our G-d as He has Commanded "us"


The law was for OUR righteousness. It was "their own" righteousness. This is exactly what Paul explained in Rom 10 and in Phil 3.

Rom 10:2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

The law did NOT reveal God's righteousness. It revealed self-righteousness.
The righteousness of God was revealed from Heaven by the gospel, not by the law, from faith to faith.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
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Post bradfreeman
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Lol, oh my gosh!! U guys lol & ur long posts 🙄.


Just tackle Gal 3:19-22, the remainder is my take on this passage and the beginning is my commentary on your previous post. You might ought to sit down at a desktop, these issues are too important to gloss over.
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Post Isa 58:12
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Dude, forget about the other posts. See if you can focus your mind on reading and comprehending the single post Brad just made. See if you can understand the arguments he is attempting to make to you and see if you can offer a point by point rebuttal.

My suggestion is to forget any other post exists. Read the one Brad just made. Focus on it. Try to understand it. And see if you can engage with it in reply.


I'm only talking about brad's post, I'm talking about all the scriptures he gives in the one post. I'm also working and stopping to check this so I can't answer till night time A lot of times. But if his posts were shorter I can answer while I'm working too. & gosh brad, I wish you would use that thought on the text I give LoL
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Post Isa 58:12
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Lol, oh my gosh!! U guys lol & ur long posts 🙄.


Just tackle Gal 3:19-22, the remainder is my take on this passage and the beginning is my commentary on your previous post. You might ought to sit down at a desktop, these issues are too important to gloss over.


I don't have a desktop, but Gal 3:19-21 deals with the Promise...vs 21; is the Law then against the "promises" of God? G-d forbid, may it not be so, for if there had been a law given wish could have given life very righteousness should have been by the law

The Law does not disannul the Abrahamic Covenant of "faith" Gal 3:22; but the scripture has concluded all under sin, that's a promise by "faith" of Y'shua HaMashiach might be given to them that "believe"

Don't forget to include what was happening in the beginning of this chapter, vs 1; O "foolish" Galatians, who has "Bewitched you" that you should not obey the Truth before whose eyes Y'shua HaMashiach has been evidently set forth crucified among you?

This chapter is dealing with their faith issues in Y'shua because they had people coming in & "bewitching" them 1:8-9,13-14, 2:4,12, 4:3,9, 3:1-6, 6:12-13..…
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Post Isa 58:12
Btw brad, your voice doesn't match your high school picture you have on here 😊
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Post Isa 58:12
Isa 58:12 wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Lol, oh my gosh!! U guys lol & ur long posts 🙄.


Just tackle Gal 3:19-22, the remainder is my take on this passage and the beginning is my commentary on your previous post. You might ought to sit down at a desktop, these issues are too important to gloss over.


I don't have a desktop, but Gal 3:19-21 deals with the Promise...vs 21; is the Law then against the "promises" of God? G-d forbid, may it not be so, for if there had been a law given wish could have given life very righteousness should have been by the law

The Law does not disannul the Abrahamic Covenant of "faith" Gal 3:22; but the scripture has concluded all under sin, that's a promise by "faith" of Y'shua HaMashiach might be given to them that "believe"

Don't forget to include what was happening in the beginning of this chapter, vs 1; O "foolish" Galatians, who has "Bewitched you" that you should not obey the Truth before whose eyes Y'shua HaMashiach has been evidently set forth crucified among you?

This chapter is dealing with their faith issues in Y'shua because they had people coming in & "bewitching" them 1:8-9,13-14, 2:4,12, 4:3,9, 3:1-6, 6:12-13..…


Also brad, I have been thinking, the purpose of the Law is cuz of people's transgressions, breaking Torah Gal 3:19. The Law either restrain sin Rom 3:23-24, brings the knowledge of sin Rom 3:20, 7:7, or provokes sin Rom 5:20.

The Torah exist to provide is people with opportunities to observe G-ds Will
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