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Isa 58:12 |
| Link wrote: | If it's 'Hebrew Roots' does that mean it has to be Judaising?
I did go to the house of a friend from church who was having meetings to teach various things that started to move into Messianic or Hebrew Roots stuff. My wife and I went a few times, and it started to get weird. We went there, and he said reasonable stuff.
We went there a while later, and there were people there we didn't know. They were saying that the word 'Jesus' and even Iesous in Greek came from the pagan Egyptian name 'Isis.' Some of them believed that 'Lord' came from a name for a pagan Germanic God, and the same with the word 'God.' So they said, 'Yeshua', 'Elohim', etc. One of them said there was no other name besides 'Yeshua' whereby men may be saved.
I told him if you actually look at the Greek text, it says, "Iesous" there. They'd been reading a book that made all these far-fetched etymological claims. Just because the author of the book found some pagan gods name that started with 'Lor', then 'Lord' was supposed to have come from that name. It was really bad linguistics.
What irritated me was that there was a man with a doctorate in some sort of Biblical field who used to teach at a Baptist seminary who just sat there while they said this junk. In fact, when I pointed out that the Bible says there is no other name besides Iesous whereby men may be saved, he said some scholar said that the original texts could have been 'Yeshua', with Hebrew plugged in there. I asked a Messianic friend of mine about that later, and he said this scholar just asserted that with no evidence at all.
The guy who hosted the group eventually repented, fortunately.
A Judaiser, in my understanding, is someone who wants to circumcise Gentiles to supposedly save them by doing so. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't Judaisers in the 'Hebrew Roots' movement, but I don't know that it's all messed up and out in left field like the group I encountered.
I think for a lot of people, Jewish Roots or Hebrew Roots is about wanting to learn about the Old Testament more deeply, and that's a good thing. |
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Very sorry u ran into a group like that link, glad u left. But they had somethings right, with the name. U should do a study on it. Because if u translate Y'shua into Greek, English, it translates as Savior. Why not just keep His Name Y'shua, it does need to be translated
Now all the other stuff you said about Lord etc is nonsense, just ridiculous. Ur right about a judaizer, & there are denominations that do crazy stuff to to be saved. You should look into the juice and some of the Bible it'll help you understand the New Testament much better
Shalom
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
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Posts: 2547
2/11/18 2:35 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Link wrote: | | I think for a lot of people, Jewish Roots or Hebrew Roots is about wanting to learn about the Old Testament more deeply, and that's a good thing. |
The problem is when this happens apart from a Christ-centered hermeneutic.
I'm reading a couple of books right now about the cultural world of the Hebrews -- specifically as it relates to Genesis and cosmology. It's fascinating stuff. It's vital to understanding what the Bible meant in the eyes and ears of a Semitic people who lived in a world very different than ours. It's a glorious way to increase one's knowledge of God and His ways.
But, Israel understood the cultural and etymological context of the Scriptures much better than we understand it today, and they missed the coming of their Messiah. If our hermeneutic isn't first Christ-centered, and then only secondarily focused on learning more about the Old Testament more deeply, than we won't understand it correctly no matter how much we study, or we'll end up insisting that believers purchased with Christ's blood must also be something else in addition.
So yes, I rejoice in people wanting to learn more about the Old Testament, and share in that pursuit. But the hermeneutic must emanate from Christ and the gospel, and not anything else. Because all things are from Him and through Him and to Him; to Him be glory forever. |
That's what I've been saying Dave, I'm trying to bring back something everybody has lost
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 2:36 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | | That's what I've been saying Dave, I'm trying to bring back something everybody has lost |
To suggest that people have lost something that you must bring back is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has failed in His job to lead people into Christ's truth, and to suggest that He has done so at an epic, global, multigenerational scale. The catholic church (little C) of history has NOT affirmed what you affirm. To suggest that they are ALL wrong and you are right is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has completely failed to guide Christ's church into the truth and that you must now fix what He has done wrong.
Christ's church has, throughout history and across the world, had a near-universal understanding of Christ's work and that understanding is DIFFERENT than yours. It is the highest measure of pride and arrogance to deny their witness and say that you are now bringing back what "everybody" has lost. It is anathema. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/11/18 2:54 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | That's what I've been saying Dave, I'm trying to bring back something everybody has lost |
To suggest that people have lost something that you must bring back is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has failed in His job to lead people into Christ's truth, and to suggest that He has done so at an epic, global, multigenerational scale. The catholic church (little C) of history has NOT affirmed what you affirm. To suggest that they are ALL wrong and you are right is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has completely failed to guide Christ's church into the truth and that you must now fix what He has done wrong.
Christ's church has, throughout history and across the world, had a near-universal understanding of Christ's work and that understanding is DIFFERENT than yours. It is the highest measure of pride and arrogance to deny their witness and say that you are now bringing back what "everybody" has lost. It is anathema. |
Oh, ur catholic dave, I understand now. Y'shua wasn't catholic, He was a Jewish Rabbi that we are to disciple, copycat. You do that you'll understand the Bible a whole lot better living like He did. You just stated that throughout history across the globe has had a "near" understanding of Messiahs work, not all Truth. Well I bring you the rest of the story. Just as in Messiahs day they only had half the message, same today, backwards
By the way, I am nobody
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 3:32 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | Oh, ur catholic dave, I understand now. Y'shua wasn't catholic, He was a Jewish Rabbi that we are to disciple, copycat. You do that you'll understand the Bible a whole lot better living like He did. You just stated that throughout history across the globe has had a "near" understanding of Messiahs work, not all Truth. Well I bring you the rest of the story. Just as in Messiahs day they only had half the message, same today, backwards
By the way, I am nobody |
Bro, you are lost in pride and sin. Please repent and receive Christ as your savior. Ask Him to open your eyes and forgive you, and remake you as a new creation in Him. I can't believe you can't hear the pride and arrogance in your words, that you have the whole story that the church of history has not had, that you are bringing the rest of the story that all those who have known Christ throughout history have somehow failed to receive. Please repent and receive Christ as your all in all and totally sufficient Savior. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/11/18 3:35 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | Oh, ur catholic dave, I understand now. Y'shua wasn't catholic, He was a Jewish Rabbi that we are to disciple, copycat. You do that you'll understand the Bible a whole lot better living like He did. You just stated that throughout history across the globe has had a "near" understanding of Messiahs work, not all Truth. Well I bring you the rest of the story. Just as in Messiahs day they only had half the message, same today, backwards
By the way, I am nobody |
Bro, you are lost in pride and sin. Please repent and receive Christ as your savior. Ask Him to open your eyes and forgive you, and remake you as a new creation in Him. I can't believe you can't hear the pride and arrogance in your words, that you have the whole story that the church of history has not had, that you are bringing the rest of the story that all those who have known Christ throughout history have somehow failed to receive. Please repent and receive Christ as your all in all and totally sufficient Savior. |
Umm, where is my pride in anyting that I've ever said🤔. I just give you guys the scriptures and the meaning behind it. It using scripture in all texts of the Bible. It is you my friend that's prideful in your catholic or protestant denominational standard. I truly hope you're not following kenneth copeland......
Please go to where I have the thread of the 10 words last Commandments and pick out the ones that are binding and then we have a conversation
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 3:44 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Isa 58:12 wrote: | | It is you my friend that's prideful in your catholic or protestant denominational standard. I truly hope you're not following kenneth copeland...... |
There's a reason I said "little C" in my post... I also did not say the church throughout history had a "near understanding" of Christ's work. I say this with respect -- not as an insult, but just as an observation that may be affecting your ability to communicate with people here -- but your reading comprehension appears to be somewhat low. I know that can be a problem when one is using a mobile device. Please carefully re-read my original reply to you and perhaps look up what is meant by the "catholic" (little C) church.
The bottom line is that nearly everyone in history who has confessed Christ as Savior has confessed certain things as true about Christ's work, and you confess something that is different. You are the exception and the outlier, and yet in your pride you do not view that as evidence that you are wrong, but as evidence that you are somehow one who is supposed to help restore what "everybody" has lost. I implore you to repent and receive Christ as Savior. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/11/18 3:47 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | It is you my friend that's prideful in your catholic or protestant denominational standard. I truly hope you're not following kenneth copeland...... |
There's a reason I said "little C" in my post... I also did not say the church throughout history had a "near understanding" of Christ's work. I say this with respect -- not as an insult, but just as an observation that may be affecting your ability to communicate with people here -- but your reading comprehension appears to be somewhat low. I know that can be a problem when one is using a mobile device. Please carefully re-read my original reply to you and perhaps look up what is meant by the "catholic" (little C) church.
The bottom line is that nearly everyone in history who has confessed Christ as Savior has confessed certain things as true about Christ's work, and you confess something that is different. You are the exception and the outlier, and yet in your pride you do not view that as evidence that you are wrong, but as evidence that you are somehow one who is supposed to help restore what "everybody" has lost. I implore you to repent and receive Christ as Savior. |
I know exactly what catholic means, it means Universal. Easily set up by the one world system by which the joke, I mean pope wants to set up. G-ds Torah is not the one world system, it's everything against it. And I'm amazed how you and other people have a problem with it. And it's ridiculous to think I'm prideful and it because I didn't write the book. If I'm wrong please show me all text of the Bible that your way has no breakage and no contradictions
But before you do that, please go to where I wrote down the 613 Laws in the Torah and show me the ones that are binding. Or point out the ones that Y'shua nailed to the cross, fulfilled, show me the ones that are weak and useless...
I know this for a fact, I love the people of G-d because I love G-d. & It is not my purpose to get everybody upset at me,
I don't understand it, I'm using the Bible talking to believers You can study out what I've shown you or you can throw it away. But I have shown you in all text of the Bible
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 3:57 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| I don't think it's fruitful to do anything further but beg you to repent. I take you at your word that you love the posters here, and I confess the same for you. I bear witness to your zeal as you pursue a law that you believe will lead you to righteousness. I pray that one day you are able to see Christ's work clearly and come to know Him as Savior. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/11/18 4:02 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | I don't think it's fruitful to do anything further but beg you to repent. I take you at your word that you love the posters here, and I confess the same for you. I bear witness to your zeal as you pursue a law that you believe will lead you to righteousness. I pray that one day you are able to see Christ's work clearly and come to know Him as Savior. |
dave, I'm not pursuing the Law, because the Law will not save me outside of Y'shua. I'm pursuing Y'shua & keeping His Commandments because I love Him John 14:15. & His Instructions reveal His love for me and care for me to get things right
And I pray for you Dave, as you go through the 613 commands I have posted and find me the bining ones. As you're doing it the Holy Spirit is going to speak to you and show you things. Set apart all the things you think you know & have learned about the Bible, & ask the L-rd to show you the Truths as you go through the 613 Commands looking for The Binding ones. If they're there He will show you😉.
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 4:12 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | I don't think it's fruitful to do anything further but beg you to repent. I take you at your word that you love the posters here, and I confess the same for you. I bear witness to your zeal as you pursue a law that you believe will lead you to righteousness. I pray that one day you are able to see Christ's work clearly and come to know Him as Savior. |
And I do love the people here
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 4:12 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
.dave, I want you to think about something: you believe Christians don't have to keep the Law/Instructions... For 1 that's not Christ-Like & 2, we see the Law played out throughout the N.T., Sabbaths, Feasts, dietary, etc. If Messiah did away with all that that these would be a contradiction and confusion in this new covenant 🤔
Think about that, I know you know the Sabbath are still in the New Testament, and I know that you know the Feasts are still in the New Testament. So how do we discern that?
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 4:22 pm
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Link |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | That's what I've been saying Dave, I'm trying to bring back something everybody has lost |
To suggest that people have lost something that you must bring back is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has failed in His job to lead people into Christ's truth, and to suggest that He has done so at an epic, global, multigenerational scale. The catholic church (little C) of history has NOT affirmed what you affirm. To suggest that they are ALL wrong and you are right is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has completely failed to guide Christ's church into the truth and that you must now fix what He has done wrong. |
Do you believe in speaking in tongues? How would you explain how rare it was before about 1900? The COG is a restorationist denomination.
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/11/18 8:20 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Link wrote: | | Do you believe in speaking in tongues? How would you explain how rare it was before about 1900? The COG is a restorationist denomination. |
Good question. As you mentioned (I think), there is a scattering of witnesses from the patristic period and at various points throughout church history. It's rare, but that's not germane to the point I was making concerning the other gentleman's beliefs. If the Scripture specifically taught against tongues and the catholic church had an overwhelming witness rejecting glossolalia as heterodoxical or heretical, it would be a good corollary to preaching that believers must keep the Law.
As it is, I'd say it's an interesting question -- and one that charismatics should ponder concerning their practices and beliefs -- but not a valid retort to the post you quoted. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/11/18 8:38 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
| Link wrote: | | Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Isa 58:12 wrote: | | That's what I've been saying Dave, I'm trying to bring back something everybody has lost |
To suggest that people have lost something that you must bring back is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has failed in His job to lead people into Christ's truth, and to suggest that He has done so at an epic, global, multigenerational scale. The catholic church (little C) of history has NOT affirmed what you affirm. To suggest that they are ALL wrong and you are right is to suggest that the Holy Spirit has completely failed to guide Christ's church into the truth and that you must now fix what He has done wrong. |
Do you believe in speaking in tongues? How would you explain how rare it was before about 1900? The COG is a restorationist denomination. |
I believe in tongues, I speak it & I can't explain that. & What is the COG restoring?😮
_________________
Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 10:36 pm
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Isa 58:12 |
Did u find me a Law out of the Torah that is binding yet dave? I think it is a very important subject as u bring it up alot, let's work it out 😜
Shalom
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Ps 122:6 Pray for the Peace of Y'erusalem |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2547
2/11/18 10:41 pm
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