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Let me tell you what's wrong with the church...

 
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Post Let me tell you what's wrong with the church... bradfreeman
What's wrong is we're fixated on what's wrong. Let's shift our focus, our faith and our preaching off the problem and onto the Cure.

John 3:14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

Focusing on the snakes, the snakebites, the poison, the pain and the death just brings more death. Focusing on the cross where Jesus paid for all sin and the curse on sin, brings life.

Stop focusing on what's wrong and keep preaching Christ and Him crucified...and people will live.
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12/7/17 2:06 pm


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Post Church Change Agent
The Church has a lot to be thankful for but most of its members think they have to do all the work. WORK'S DONE. Acts Enthusiast
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12/7/17 2:58 pm


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Post Re: Church bradfreeman
Change Agent wrote:
The Church has a lot to be thankful for but most of its members think they have to do all the work. WORK'S DONE.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
How did this guy get it so wrong when Brad is so right?
What kind of ungodly guy would get these churches to look at their problem when brad says it is not necessary?
It's a good thing we have Brad with us so we can disregard these erroneous texts.
Its a good thing some of us can actually hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. Twisted Evil

Quote:
Revelation 3New Living Translation (NLT)

The Message to the Church in Sardis

3 “Write this letter to the angel[a] of the church in Sardis. This is the message from the one who has the sevenfold Spirit[b] of God and the seven stars:


“I know all the things you do, and that you have a reputation for being alive—but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God. 3 Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don’t wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief.


4 “Yet there are some in the church in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes with evil. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 All who are victorious will be clothed in white. I will never erase their names from the Book of Life, but I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine.


6 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.

The Message to the Church in Philadelphia

7 “Write this letter to the angel of the church in Philadelphia.


This is the message from the one who is holy and true,
the one who has the key of David.
What he opens, no one can close;
and what he closes, no one can open:[c]


8 “I know all the things you do, and I have opened a door for you that no one can close. You have little strength, yet you obeyed my word and did not deny me. 9 Look, I will force those who belong to Satan’s synagogue—those liars who say they are Jews but are not—to come and bow down at your feet. They will acknowledge that you are the ones I love.


10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world. 11 I am coming soon.[d] Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown. 12 All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of my God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of my God, and they will be citizens in the city of my God—the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from my God. And I will also write on them my new name.


13 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.

The Message to the Church in Laodicea

14 “Write this letter to the angel of the church in Laodicea. This is the message from the one who is the Amen—the faithful and true witness, the beginning[e] of God’s new creation:


15 “I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! 16 But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth! 17 You say, ‘I am rich. I have everything I want. I don’t need a thing!’ And you don’t realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. 18 So I advise you to buy gold from me—gold that has been purified by fire. Then you will be rich. Also buy white garments from me so you will not be shamed by your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so you will be able to see. 19 I correct and discipline everyone I love. So be diligent and turn from your indifference.


20 “Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends. 21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.


22 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches.”

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12/7/17 4:34 pm


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Post Re: Let me tell you what's wrong with the church... Cojak
bradfreeman wrote:
...
Stop focusing on what's wrong and keep preaching Christ and Him crucified...and people will live.


WRONG Brad. I know a lady or two and at least one man who tells it different! They love to tell what is WRONG with the church! Shocked
They can answer any question you have on politics also. ?They B well rounded! Shocked Wink Sad
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12/7/17 6:54 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Brad -- it is always good to focus on Christ!

If you were ministering to someone and you shared that Jesus was the Cure -- and they said, thanks, but I'm not sick! -- what would you do/say?
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12/7/17 9:44 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
How did this guy get it so wrong when Brad is so right?
What kind of ungodly guy would get these churches to look at their problem when brad says it is not necessary?
It's a good thing we have Brad with us so we can disregard these erroneous texts.
Its a good thing some of us can actually hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. Twisted Evil


The Holy Spirit never gets it wrong. Notice how each church gets a revelation of Jesus Christ FIRST (it's also the name of the book) to believe so that they overcome.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— 6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
...

Rev 1:11 saying, “Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. 16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. 19 Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. 20 As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.


Rev 2:1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:

The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

2 ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false; 3 and you have perseverance and have endured for My name’s sake, and have not grown weary. 4 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent. 6 Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:

9 ‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write:

The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this:

13 ‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is; and you hold fast My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. 15 So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth. 17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’


...and so on. Jesus is our focus.

When we keep our eyes on the author and finisher of our faith, we find ourselves able to lay aside every weight and sin and run our race with patience.
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12/8/17 10:41 am


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Post bradfreeman
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Brad -- it is always good to focus on Christ!

If you were ministering to someone and you shared that Jesus was the Cure -- and they said, thanks, but I'm not sick! -- what would you do/say?


Yes. It's always good to focus on Christ.

I would let them know we were all sick, that's why He came. I would let them know the Cure is theirs, that God's love and acceptance is theirs, anytime they need it. I sow, God makes it grow.

If a person doesn't feel the snake-bite, they may not be ready for the cure.

Do you think Moses had to convince the Numbers 21 Jews that they were snake-bitten?

Have you ever met anyone who seriously felt as though they had never done anything wrong?

If you did, would it be your duty to convince them that they had done something wrong?

If you did convince them that they had done something wrong, would it increase their faith that Jesus died their sin away and rose again with their new life and is Lord?
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Post Dave Dorsey
bradfreeman wrote:
If a person doesn't feel the snake-bite, they may not be ready for the cure.

So if they never happen to feel it, they just go to hell? If only there were chapters and chapters full of verses you could share with someone to help draw their attention to the snake bite.

Quote:
Do you think Moses had to convince the Numbers 21 Jews that they were snake-bitten?

Have you ever met anyone who seriously felt as though they had never done anything wrong?

Have I ever met people who believe they are good people who have not done things that merit the wrath of God, who know they have done things wrong but earnestly believe the good they have done far outweighs the bad? Um... that's a yes. Smile

Quote:
If you did, would it be your duty to convince them that they had done something wrong?

I guess I could just stand back and watch them speed in to the gaping maw of Hell, but that doesn't seem like a good thing to do.

Quote:
If you did convince them that they had done something wrong, would it increase their faith that Jesus died their sin away and rose again with their new life and is Lord?

Yes, I do suppose someone feeling the weight and gravity of their sin -- or even realizing that they had sin -- would be an important part of receiving by faith salvation from the consequences of that sin.
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Post FLRon
I find that a lot of people who have a list of "what's wrongs" in the church do so because they react the same way when complaining about the government. The government should be doing this, the government should be doing that.
They see the government,or the church,as a stand alone entity instead of what they actually are....which is all of us.

Not so easy to call out the faults and problems when we accept them as belonging to us.
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12/8/17 5:55 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Dave Dorsey wrote:
So if they never happen to feel it, they just go to hell? If only there were chapters and chapters full of verses you could share with someone to help draw their attention to the snake bite.


There are loads of "thou shalt nots." But feeding on the knowledge of your good and evil doesn't bring life. It just brings more death. Do you think folks don't feel the death? Do you think they don't know they aren't immortal, that they are dying, that they miss the mark of God's glory?

Maybe that haven't seen the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus because we still have them trying to be like God by their knowledge of good and evil.

Maybe their hearts and mind are veiled because we preach the chapters and chapters full of verses to draw their attention away from Christ and onto themselves.

2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away...2 Cor 4:3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

When we preach ourselves (what Moses says about us), they don't see the light. Their hearts and mind are veiled, blinded - they don't believe.

The blind mind is not the mind that can't see its sin. It's the mind that can't see the glory of God in the face of Jesus.
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12/11/17 7:58 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
bradfreeman wrote:
Do you think folks don't feel the death? Do you think they don't know they aren't immortal, that they are dying, that they miss the mark of God's glory?

Do I think folks believe they are good people who have not done things that merit the wrath of God, who know they have done things wrong but earnestly believe the good they have done far outweighs the bad? Do I think most folks believe they will go to Heaven, if it exists, based on the aforementioned personal merits?

Yes, I would say that is the case with the majority of unbelievers I have interacted with or have seen express an opinion on the matter. Smile
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Post Dave Dorsey
bradfreeman wrote:
Maybe their hearts and mind are veiled because we preach the chapters and chapters full of verses to draw their attention away from Christ and onto themselves.

Also, I would like to be sure I understood this statement correctly. Are you suggesting that there are chapters and chapters in the Bible (understanding that I wasn't talking about literal chapters and you probably aren't either, but rather a large quantity of verses) that we should not be preaching, or have I misunderstood you here?


Last edited by Dave Dorsey on 12/11/17 1:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post Nature Boy Florida
If these guys never understand they are hurting (for all have sinned) they will never look to the cross lifted up.
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Post bradfreeman
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Are you suggesting that there are chapters and chapters in the Bible (understanding that I wasn't talking about literal chapters and you probably aren't either, but rather a large quantity of verses) that we should not be preaching, or have I misunderstood you here?



We must preach all the Bible correctly. When we preach that the OT (or the New for that matter) is lessons about our good and evil we must learn or rules we must keep as a means of finding life or blessing or righteousness, we've missed it and veil hearts and minds.

When we preach Jesus from the OT, the prophecies, shadowy pictures and promises He fulfilled, we unveil God.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Heb. 10:7 "Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”


Luke 24:44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

Preach it all, just rightly divide it. The divider is the cross.
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Post Dave Dorsey
So we should preach Romans 3:23, right?

Romans 3:24 says we are justified by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

That's the Cure. That's the Good News.

And one verse prior (and really the several verses prior) there is a declaration of the disease, and in the verses prior to that, the Law's inability to cure it.

The preaching of Romans 3:23, that man is sick and diseased in sin, reveals the need for the glorious free gift of Romans 3:24.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Dave Dorsey wrote:
So we should preach Romans 3:23, right?

Romans 3:24 says we are justified by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

That's the Cure. That's the Good News.

And one verse prior (and really the several verses prior) there is a declaration of the disease, and in the verses prior to that, the Law's inability to cure it.

The preaching of Romans 3:23, that man is sick and diseased in sin, reveals the need for the glorious free gift of Romans 3:24.


Right on.
If it ain't broke - you don't fix it. Need to know its broke first.
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Post Dave Dorsey
And really, even to say that man is sick and diseased in sin is not correct. I was just following the "cure" analogy with those words, but man is not simply one who does not know he is sick or diseased. Man is not simply unaware he is "snakebitten". Man is stone cold DEAD in his trespasses and yet is still largely unaware of his reality. Acts-perienced Poster
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12/11/17 3:22 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Dave Dorsey wrote:
So we should preach Romans 3:23, right?

Romans 3:24 says we are justified by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

That's the Cure. That's the Good News.

And one verse prior (and really the several verses prior) there is a declaration of the disease, and in the verses prior to that, the Law's inability to cure it.

The preaching of Romans 3:23, that man is sick and diseased in sin, reveals the need for the glorious free gift of Romans 3:24.


You bet! Preach it! Preach Jesus' death as our death and His resurrection as our new life!

Rom 3:23 and 24 are a declaration of how Jesus ended our sin and our death and raised the fallen up to sit with Him in life, in the glory of God. We no longer fall short of the glory.
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