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Why wouldn't God warn the folks at the Texas church of impending danger?
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Post renewal
Question, please...Has God ever spoken to you and you have missed it?

Well?


If, so why?

I will wait...
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11/8/17 5:22 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
renewal wrote:
Question, please...Has God ever spoken to you and you have missed it?

With respect, friend, I asked first. Let's assume Bryan Holcombe missed God, and that miss resulted in his death and the death of eight of his family members.

Please tell me what Bryan Holcombe could have done to avoid missing God, and still be alive today with his family. It's such a straightforward question, asked a half dozen times now. Please just answer it, then I would be glad to answer your question as well.
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11/8/17 5:34 pm


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Post Your Turn renewal
What could he have done? No one knows we were not there.

It is the same for us.

I have read Jesus made some powerful statements dealing with this issue and I talked about it in the first posts.

All of us know what he said." Him that hath an ear let him hear."

To me, he was saying you need to listen and you can miss what is being said.

We are supposed to be Spirit-led daily and the posts I have read that seems to be something that some are missing.

Did God warm them? perhaps, could they have missed his voice? Maybe who is to say?


What I have been reading here is the idea that somehow he did not warn them.

I know I have been warned many times about danger and that warning saved my life.

When you have a gun pointed at you from twenty feet away and you are not shot because God warned you, one would have the idea that God can warn us.

So, until you have that gun pointed at you and you were warned by God and lived you need just to take what I am saying as fact.
I did and I am here today because of it.

Why are Spirit-filled people so unbelieving when it comes to this area.

Now Dave your turn.
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11/9/17 2:04 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
So you're basically saying that if we miss God, there's nothing we could have done to hear Him? He tried to warn us we were going to die, but we missed it, too bad, so sad. Is that pretty much it? If Bryan Holcombe's family is dead because he didn't have an ear to hear, how could he have had one? You still haven't answered that. If you don't have an answer, you're basically saying it's Bryan's fault his family's dead, because he missed God, but you can't say what he should have done differently. That sounds like something one of Job's friends would say. If I'm missing something here, please elaborate on your statement and fill in the gaps for me.

I'll answer your question, but hopefully you'll come back and more thoroughly answer mine. God speaks to me almost every day. A good percentage of the time, He speaks to me audibly. To my knowledge, I have never failed to hear Him. I have certainly failed to understand Him, and I have failed to obey Him. But every time God speaks to me, the message gets through. It doesn't disappear somewhere in the ether.

I "missed" Him for years as I engaged in neocharismatic error, but even then, it was not a failure to hear Him -- only a failure to understand Him, to obey Him, and to rightly divide and apply His words to my life.

As a matter of fact, I have an appointment to hear from God this afternoon. Yes, that's right, sometimes I know when God is going to speak to me in advance. I've got a couple of things to take care of here at my computer, and then I'm going to grab a glass of iced tea, head down to my study, and open His wonderful Word -- where I will hear His voice, clearly and directly.
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11/9/17 2:24 pm


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Post renewal
Dave,

Again you have missed it. One more time none of us know what really happened do we? We do not know if God warned them or not do we?

So do not put on me what they did or did not do?

What I do know is that God can speak to us you agreed because he speaks to you.

It is sad indeed and the pain is beyond all of us because we have never had anything like that before.

But one thing I do know, without question I have faced the same thing and I was spared.

Others that I know were spared as well because they did have an ear to hear. Fact.

Now what happened to them and what God did or did not do we will never know.

Now let me asked you something you stated that God speaks to you wonderfully. and you stated how he speaks to you.

What is the reason that you hear his voice? and how can others hear his voice? Share please.
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11/9/17 3:06 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
The normal Christian life is intended to be led by the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, certainly. The very same early church that lived the Spirit-led life in Acts faced many hardships, even persecution and death, as they continued to be led by the Spirit. Let us never forget that even Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil, and even Jesus’ obedience to His Father’s voice resulted in His death.

The idea that being led by the Spirit means a guaranteed avoidance of problems (and even perhaps avoiding getting killed) is more akin to the “wish upon a star” ideas of men like Walt Disney rather than the wisdom of God.
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11/9/17 3:07 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
renewal wrote:
Again you have missed it. One more time none of us know what really happened do we? We do not know if God warned them or not do we?

So do not put on me what they did or did not do?

But you're saying it's their fault for not hearing from Him. He spoke, they missed it. But you can't explain how, or how they could have prevented it. I won't press further, but my question has not been answered.

renewal wrote:
Now let me asked you something you stated that God speaks to you wonderfully. and you stated how he speaks to you.

What is the reason that you hear his voice? and how can others hear his voice? Share please.

By recognizing that God's voice is mediated to us through Scripture and Scripture alone. He spoke to the fathers by the prophets at many times and in many ways, but has in these last days spoken to us by His Son. God's voice in Scripture is external to us, objective, and cannot be missed or go unheard. It is not an internal "feeling" or sense that could be right or could be wrong. It is not a subjective feeling that is known only by me, and could be missed if I am not in the right frame of mind. It is an authoritative, external, objective witness that can be fully trusted, and that is fully sufficient for all faith and practice. It is the faith once and for all delivered to the saints.

And God did speak to Bryan Holcombe, clearly and directly, about this issue. Mat shared some of those verses earlier. God spoke other things to Holcombe too, which I shared earlier. And He will surely follow through on every word of His promises to Bryan.
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11/9/17 3:18 pm


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Post renewal
You are not reading things correctly. I never said God spoke to him, did I?

I said we do not know if he did or he did or did not.

And if he did he missed it. Which set you off on a runaway train.

Our hearts go out to them mightly and that has nothing to do what we have been discussing.

I shared some facts with you to show you that God can and God will warn us at times. Other times perhaps not.

So what is the problem here?
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11/9/17 4:32 pm


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Post Re: Listen Again bradfreeman
Dave Dorsey wrote:
renewal wrote:
Could they have missed it?

Let's say they could have. The next natural question is: How could they have avoided missing it? Please answer that. It's a simple, straightforward question.

The guest preacher that day was named Bryan Holcombe. He was there with his wife Karla, their son Marc, their pregnant daughter-in-law Crystal, and their four grandchildren: Noah, Emily, Megan, and Greg.

They're dead now. They're all dead, all nine of them.

Please tell me -- it's a simple and straightforward request -- how Bryan Holcombe could have avoided missing God that day and losing his life and the lives of eight members of his family.

Thanks.


Is your question: How can we hear the voice of the Spirit more clearly?

If so, there are several things we can do to begin to discern between the voice of the Spirit, our own thoughts and the voice of the enemy.

1. Know the Word. This will help, in many instances, to identify urges, leadings, feelings, impulses that are contrary to clear scripture. It will also help to identify "leading" that appears to be in line with scripture.

2. Understand that many things make hearing difficult. Sometimes we don't have "ears to hear." Sometimes the Spirit is leading and our experiences, prior knowledge, relationships and emotions make it hard to hear. If I felt led to stay home from church, I might tend to question that leading, doubt that is a leading from the Lord and go on to church in spite of that leading. If I felt led to pray for someone I know very well about a circumstance that I was unaware of, I might doubt that voice since it doesn't line up with what I know. If we get mad at the preacher, I might suddenly "feel led" to leave a church.

3. Pay attention to the various ways God speaks. Dreams, visions, prophecy and signs are all specifically mentioned in Acts to as by-products of outpouring of the Spirit - an explosion of divine communication. Some pay no attention to their dreams, things they see while praying or signs simply because they haven't been told that these are ways God communicates.

4. Experience. The more we know about the ways He speaks, the more we listen for His voice and the more we learn how to eliminate the influences that keep us from hearing clearly, the better we will hear.

In John 1, He IS the Word, not the silence...so He speaks. Every good parent would warn His children of impending danger. I warn my children when I think they are headed for trouble. Sometimes the listen. Sometimes they don't. But God is a better parent than I am. He warned Paul multiple times about trouble BEFORE it happened. Sometimes circumstances caused that voice to be ignored (the men sailed into a shipwreck in Act 28 after being warned). Sometimes Paul went regardless of the warning (Agabus said Paul would be arrested).

This is an unspeakable tragedy. My prayers, love and support go out to all who are impacted by this. I wish it had never happened. I'm SURE God does too. I would be MORE surprised to learn that God made no effort to warn anyone about this shooting and also to prevent it than to learn, as we may when we get to Heaven, that someone unfortunately didn't hear or heed His warning or see the way of escape.
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11/13/17 2:45 pm


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