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 Re: One More Observation, To Stir the Pot |
Cojak |
| mytwocents wrote: | The paper says: "Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances . ."
Sooooo, what are we gonna do about Coffee?  |
So there you go, starting that again. I reckon Nyquil is next
Yeah, that coffee thing is silly. It only keeps you awake when necessary and gives my wife a headache when she don't get it. I forgot the winkee dude! 
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9/20/17 11:27 pm
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| Re: One More Observation, To Stir the Pot |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Cojak wrote: | | mytwocents wrote: | The paper says: "Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances . ."
Sooooo, what are we gonna do about Coffee? |
So there you go, starting that again. I reckon Nyquil is next
Yeah, that coffee thing is silly. It only keeps you awake when necessary and gives my wife a headache when she don't get it. I forgot the winkee dude! |
I'm ok with them rewording it.
Alcohol and coffee do not have the same dangers...even a fool knows that.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
9/21/17 7:09 am
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| Re: One More Observation, To Stir the Pot |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Alcohol and coffee do not have the same dangers...even a fool knows that. |
I don't know man, hey, I seen some preachers what without coffee or them little 5-Hour drinks got real mean. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
9/21/17 11:42 am
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| So, let's abstain from using guns... |
Mark Ledbetter |
Same argument.
Guns do not kill people.
Alcohol does not cause drunkenness and related issues.
Poor life choices, not to mention sin, causes the abuse of alcohol.
Poor life choices results in gun accidents and homicides
People choose to tip the bottle and pull the trigger.
The fault lies within the heart when it comes to matters of sin regardless of the expression - alcohol, guns, sex, etc.
Rather than own up to it, we want to pass the blame on others, things, circumstances, etc. The Blame Game rather than accepting responsibility for our decisions and actions.
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Posts: 2109
9/21/17 5:17 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Not so fast Mark.
Alcohol and guns are not the same - although alcohol often leads to gun violence.
Even the Bible shows drunkenness can slip up on you - all the while you think it is harmless. Unless you are kid, you know the danger of a gun first hand.
Our point with alcohol is how no one starts out to be a drunk - but after a while - it overtakes them. Virtually every alcoholic will tell you this is so.
However, if you want to ban guns - you could probably get a large group of liberals to go along with you. (Just don't take their gun)
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Posts: 16619
9/22/17 6:47 am
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| NBF, sorry but |
Mark Ledbetter |
I should make my point better:
Sin, regardless of its nature, begins with the heart, yet we want to blame the manner, or another person for not controlling our desires, viz.
We blame beer, vodka, bourbon, whiskey
We (men) blame women for the way they dress
We blame guns for murder, injury, and suicides
We blame drugs for addictive life-styles, including prescribed drugs intended for good.
The sin springs forth from the heart, Jesus said, and are demonstrated through the flesh, Paul wrote.
We can debate this issue but never address the real issue - our hearts need to focus on the fruit of the Spirit, feeding upon the Word of God, drinking from that a inward fountain of the Spirit, seeking to please God rather than ourselves.
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9/22/17 7:46 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Mark,
Sorry man - but some drugs are chemically addicting to some folks. It isn't a matter of simply "controlling our desires".
Sure some folks like the way it makes them feel and if they wanted to - they could stop. But not all.
For some, the drug takes the person over.
Alcohol is one of those drugs. It is totally ludicrous to drink it and risk being one of those unable to handle it - when the alcohol content is so great and the ease of access is so simple.
Alcoholics will tell you they became a slave to it. It started out as something they could quit anytime - after a while - they no longer could quit. It no longer is a matter of willing your self to stop once you are addicted.
We are foolish to lump alcohol consumption in with all other addictive lifestyles. It often crosses over from that. What minister is foolish enough not to warn folks about it? What friend wouldn't tell another to stay away from it?
Recent study: 23% of young men binge drink (at least 8 drinks at one sitting) 5 times per month.
Check out this guy that just drank after work - eventually it almost killed him - and the solution isn't to just cut back to two drinks a night - it is to GIVE UP ALCOHOL COMPLETELY! That is the solution - shouldn't a minister start with the solution first?
http://people.com/sports/ric-flair-alcoholism-health-crisis/
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
9/22/17 12:29 pm
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| sorry, nbf |
Mark Ledbetter |
looks like poor choices to me...and I offer this in context of men and women who have professed Jesus as the Savior and Lord and not the world.
While there are rare occasions, no one has to take drugs, drink alcohol, overeat, engage in illicit sexual activity...
Not denying addiction is an issue, and there may be some exceptions to the rule, but it begins not with the first drink, the first pill, the first sexual encounter, the roll of the dice or draw from the deck.
It begins in the heart.
| Quote: | | "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders." - Matthew 15:19 |
James writes, | Quote: | | "But each one is tempted when he is carried away and entices by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren." 1:14-16 |
These issues result in what the Apostle Paul describes as "works" or "deeds" of the flesh:
| Quote: | | Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy outburst of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these..." Galatians 5:19-21 |
Again, it all begins with the heart. It is our core values - what we believe. This is what effects our attitudes, decisions, and actions.
Rather than confess our sin, repent, and seek the Spirit's reforming power, we had rather label it a disease and/or blame others or circumstances, etc.
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9/22/17 6:04 pm
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| Re: Why Not? |
Link |
| renewal wrote: |
It is all the way or it is not at all...while you are at it, invite the Holy Spirit to be in your midst. Why not? If it is ok to drink one should be able to invite the Lord into the house..
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Do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves the room when the church has Holy Communion?
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11/18/17 10:49 am
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| Re: Why Not? |
bradfreeman |
| Link wrote: | | renewal wrote: |
It is all the way or it is not at all...while you are at it, invite the Holy Spirit to be in your midst. Why not? If it is ok to drink one should be able to invite the Lord into the house..
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Do you believe the Holy Spirit leaves the room when the church has Holy Communion? |
...or when someone opens a bottle of beer?
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/20/17 11:09 am
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| Ironically the COG academic is where I first heard that Jesus drank wine |
UncleJD |
as a naive 18-year-old who believed everything I'd ever heard on the subject in my COG upbringing I was SHOCKED when Dr. Gerald Daffe told us that contrary to what we'd always been taught in Sunday School, Jesus did NOT turn the water into grape-juice. I was offended that day.  |
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Posts: 3138
11/22/17 2:31 pm
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| Uncle JD |
Change Agent |
Who do we want to believe, Dr. Daffee or somebody wanting to prop up COG teachings?
I'll choose Dr. Daffee. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
11/23/17 11:53 am
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| Re: Uncle JD |
UncleJD |
| Change Agent wrote: | Who do we want to believe, Dr. Daffee or somebody wanting to prop up COG teachings?
I'll choose Dr. Daffee. |
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Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
11/23/17 7:03 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Daffee has a DMin.
Arrington has a PhD.
The DMin, while certainly a doctorate, is a practically oriented degree.
The PhD is a beast all its own, research oriented, and requiring many more hours than a DMin.
The DMin is typically around 36 graduate hours. The PhD requires 60+ hours.
If Daffe is promotin alcohol consumption its cause his doctoral level study is half that of Arrington's. Daffe is a good man, give him more time, he'll learn. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/28/17 3:00 pm
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| OTCP |
Change Agent |
| If it takes someone with a DMin or a PHD to read and understand the bible how would the ordinary person ever began to get biblical truths from their reading? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
11/30/17 5:07 pm
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| Re: OTCP |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Change Agent wrote: | | If it takes someone with a DMin or a PHD to read and understand the bible how would the ordinary person ever began to get biblical truths from their reading? |
I think ya might a misunderstood ma post, CA. A feller with a 3rd grade education can read the good Book an God will facilitate his understanding with enough grace for salvation.
My post was in reference to them who said they got the message of non-abstinence from Dr. Daffe, as opposed to Dr. Arrington's message of abstinence. My point was at tween the two academics, Arrington's PhD is much more research oriented than Daffe's D.Min. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/30/17 10:27 pm
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| OTCP |
Change Agent |
| Sorry that God did not help poor Dr. Daffe. He must just be on second grade level. Guess salvation must be the only simple subject in the Bible. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
12/1/17 3:22 pm
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| He'll has frozen over again |
brotherjames |
I concur with OTCP again.
I stayed away from posting on this thread as it was predominately a COG issue but the AG has the exact same position on alcohol - Abstinence. And our theologians are in sync with yours and go beyond what your paper expounds. But more to the point our white paper discusses some of the reasons and ramifications of abstinence and abuse of alcohol. It is not legalism, it is in fact following a scriptural lifestyle with concern for those with whom we do life. If you would like to read the AG position paper, I offer it here (with 39 footnotes OTCP) in all humility (I also do not touch alcohol).
https://ag.org/Beliefs/Topics-Index/Abstinence-from-Alcohol |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
12/5/17 10:52 am
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| brotherjames, |
bonnie knox |
| Thanks for posting that. I have read about half (or more) of it and will probably read the rest later when I get time. I thought the part I've read so far is good. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
12/5/17 11:52 am
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| Re: He'll has frozen over again |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| brotherjames wrote: | | I concur with OTCP again. |
The Good Lord is workin on ya, BJ. Won't be long till ya discard em ole woffie tendencies an walk in total truth. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
12/10/17 12:40 pm
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