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bonnie knox |
NBF, I like you, too. I appreciate that you are trying to mediate, here.
I don't typically apologize for "imagined" offenses, and generally don't apologize for real offenses if I feel I would do the same thing in a similar situation. In other words, NBF, if I socked you in the jaw for denigrating my favorite team, I couldn't apologize; I would just say, if he denigrates my team again, I'll sock him again. (In other words, in my book, if I apologize, I have to feel that I have done wrong, admit and state precisely what the wrong was, and will make a good faith effort to not repeat the same in the future. If I can't do that, I don't bother with the appearance of apologizing.)
But I might be amenable to a ceasefire, depending on the conditions.
Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Full disclosure.
I like Bonnie and Dean and wish they would apologize to each other for any offenses, real or imagined.'
And as a good faith token, they should both share their current salaries.
Fair enough? |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 3/13/17 9:41 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Thanks Dean.
I really do get the argument from both sides of this issue.
I fall on the side of full disclosure - partly on the fact that my salary was published every year in the local newspaper - and it did not cause me any great concern after the first year.
If someone doesn't want to come to your church because of it - that is their problem.
Also Jesus published his salary(sort of) and his housing conditions - including the fact that he didn't even own a place to lay his head. He didn't have many followers after that - most went away - but he had some solid ones that proved to be loyal in the end.
So - I say that to say - it isn't any big deal if you are sure you are worth what you are getting paid (and then some) - and it allows you to totally operate in the sunshine...a good place to be.
My pastor publishes his salary - and all benefits - and no one begrudges him anything he is receiving. Of course, he made the same salary when he started his church as when it started running 800 - because he had some church planters guarantee his salary for three years...it certainly made a difference in that he didn't have any financial worries---I wish folks with a church planing initiative would realize how important that is...but I digress...
Bottom line - he sees no reason now to not disclose everything. I have learned it just makes things easier - and in some ways does add a measure of accountability - in that if it couldn't be defended - he wouldn't take it...and we don't get any preaching on "God expects his folks to have the finest of everything" stuff...to justify a million dollar salary. Creflo Dollar style. _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16619 3/19/17 1:44 pm
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krista |
Church life is kinda funny. Over the years I have heard a few, question the Pastor's salary, but it has always been a question of, " Is he being paid too much"? But I don't recall ever hearing any question, "Is he getting enough"? "Is he getting enough to provide for his family"?
Should it be secret? Probably not. But I think if you have a problem with it, go ask him / her. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Posts: 2960 4/8/17 4:29 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
The last thing I want to do is purposely keep a secret so we gladly provide the salary information to those members who are in good standing & who would like to make an appointment with a pastor to look over the books.
Have we done this? Yes we have & we do not begrudge anybody for asking!
Have I turned folks down? Yes I have because as I tell everyone, this info is for members in good standing only.
We have people whose names have been on the books for years & they make an attempt at showing up once in a great while & rarely bring an offering. Are they in good standing ...no! I have no problem addressing this.
So in today's monthly financial meeting we discussed how we will provide clear & transparent info for the next members meeting & we will provide the church with 2 meetings.
The 1st meeting will be for all attenders & it will be a summary or 'window view' of the church finances.
The 2nd meeting will be for members only & it will be much more revealing in terms of actual dollars spent rather than percentages of how those same dollars are spent.
If I lose my job here I'm sure one of my Acts Bros. will give me a place to earn a living & a place to live lol
. _________________ "Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4682 5/13/17 7:30 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Dean Steenburgh wrote: | The last thing I want to do is purposely keep a secret so we gladly provide the salary information to those members who are in good standing. |
How do ya determine whether or not a member is in "good standing?"
1. Require a W-2?
2. Faithful attendance?
3. Consistently takes the pastor out to eat?
4. Is an excellent "Yes Man/Woman?"
5. Has a PhD from the United Life Church? (www.ulc.org) |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15564 5/13/17 9:25 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | The last thing I want to do is purposely keep a secret so we gladly provide the salary information to those members who are in good standing. |
How do ya determine whether or not a member is in "good standing?"
1. Require a W-2?
2. Faithful attendance?
3. Consistently takes the pastor out to eat?
4. Is an excellent "Yes Man/Woman?"
5. Has a PhD from the United Life Church? (www.ulc.org) |
All of the above hehehehehe _________________ "Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4682 5/13/17 9:42 pm
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PreacherSteve |
Read 2 Kings 22-23...Specifically, 2 Kings 22:7. If you can't figure it out then, I can't help you |
Newbie Posts: 7 9/7/17 9:18 am
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bonnie knox |
Typical modern-day evangelical hermeneutics--find one verse (anywhere in the Bible, preferably Old Covenant), apply it to a totally different situation as being relevantly binding, top it off by suggesting anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion is hopelessly ignorant.
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 9/7/17 11:10 am
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Cojak |
Dean Steenburgh wrote: | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | The last thing I want to do is purposely keep a secret so we gladly provide the salary information to those members who are in good standing. |
How do ya determine whether or not a member is in "good standing?"
1. Require a W-2?
2. Faithful attendance?
3. Consistently takes the pastor out to eat?
4. Is an excellent "Yes Man/Woman?"
5. Has a PhD from the United Life Church? (www.ulc.org) |
All of the above hehehehehe |
I like that comment! _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 1/15/18 2:32 pm
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Cojak |
bonnie knox wrote: | Typical modern-day evangelical hermeneutics--find one verse (anywhere in the Bible, preferably Old Covenant), apply it to a totally different situation as being relevantly binding, top it off by suggesting anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion is hopelessly ignorant.
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WEll worded Bonnie. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 1/15/18 2:33 pm
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FLRon |
I have no idea what my pastor makes. Back in the day I used to have access to the sliding scale the COG used to pay the pastor based on attendance, but no more.
I will say this, that if I wanted to know what my pastor made I would ask him and he would tell me. Fact is,I don't care what he makes as long as it's enough.
And for the life of me I'll never understand why people think it's their business to know what anyone makes, regardless of income source. _________________ “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater Posts: 767 1/29/18 7:35 pm
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Cojak |
FLRon wrote: | ...
And for the life of me I'll never understand why people think it's their business to know what anyone makes, regardless of income source. |
I don't know for sure. But I do think I am responsible for being a good steward. Just an extreme example If a man is already wealthy, say worth ten times his wealthiest member. Maybe my finances would do more good as a Christian if I would bolster some widow's situation who lives on a very small fixed income.
I do not know what my pastor's salary is. But I do hope it is sufficient to pay his bills and feed his family. Many pastors I know actually are the main support for their church. God Bless 'em. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 1/30/18 1:59 pm
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God forbid Cojak |
brotherjames |
that a pastor might make more than enough and even make more than his wealthiest member. What does that verse about being worthy of "double honor" mean? We should probably just cut it out.
Quote: | I don't know for sure. But I do think I am responsible for being a good steward. Just an extreme example If a man is already wealthy, say worth ten times his wealthiest member. Maybe my finances would do more good as a Christian if I would bolster some widow's situation who lives on a very small fixed income. |
THere are a few pastors that are very wealthy. TD Jakes comes to mind, Steve Furtik is another, Joel Osteen is another. They sell books and make millions. But you know what, if they are doing the work of a pastor, I give my money to the church and as unto the Lord and let them figure out where it should go. That is being a good steward. You have to trust the Board or whoever is in charge of the finances to do the right thing. If you don't trust them go find a church where you can. You have no right to assume you can judge how much a pastor should make. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 935 1/30/18 5:18 pm
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Re: God forbid Cojak |
Cojak |
[quote="brotherjames"]that a pastor might make more than enough and even make more than his wealthiest member. What does that verse about being worthy of "double honor" mean? We should probably just cut it out.
Quote: | I don't know for sure. But I do think I am responsible for being a good steward. Just an extreme example If a man is already wealthy, say worth ten times his wealthiest member. Maybe my finances would do more good as a Christian if I would bolster some widow's situation who lives on a very small fixed income. |
I thought I sorta covered that DOUBLE HONOR thing there. But anyway to each his own. That is my opinion. I am allowed one. YOuhave yours.
Love you bro. God is good! _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24276 1/30/18 6:21 pm
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cogvegan |
The church should be transparent. Members like to see where their money and what their money is going toward. I, personally, would not give to a church that would not disclose a pastor's salary and does not have a clear report of what the funding is being used for. Not disclosing this information sets the church is for problems. You want members to trust you and being secretive does not allow much trust in my humble opinion. |
Member Posts: 30 2/18/18 4:52 pm
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georgiapath |
Cojak wrote: | FLRon wrote: | ...
And for the life of me I'll never understand why people think it's their business to know what anyone makes, regardless of income source. |
I don't know for sure. But I do think I am responsible for being a good steward. Just an extreme example If a man is already wealthy, say worth ten times his wealthiest member. Maybe my finances would do more good as a Christian if I would bolster some widow's situation who lives on a very small fixed income.
I do not know what my pastor's salary is. But I do hope it is sufficient to pay his bills and feed his family. Many pastors I know actually are the main support for their church. God Bless 'em. |
I tend to give any extra money I have to people that I know need it, instead of giving it to the church. I see a lot of waste there, and I don't like to waste money regardless of whose money it is. |
Acts-dicted Posts: 7587 6/5/18 9:09 pm
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