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Quiet Wyatt |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Two longtime close friends of mine left the CoG for Eastern Orthodoxy back in the 1990s. I will say it is better than the Roman Catholic Church, in my opinion, and if I were ever to join a 'high church' tradition, I would definitely be much more inclined to join the EO than the RCC or Anglican Church. The issues are much the same with all of these high church traditions, in my view: 'Holy Tradition' over Scripture, prayers to Mary and other departed saints, sacramentalism, sacerdotalism, apostolic successionism, and so forth. The EO do seem to have the most beautiful iconography and architecture in their churches. They do insist, like Catholics, that they are THE original New Testament Church, but they generally do accept the fact that there may be real Christians in other Christian traditions.
A good article on EO by a Protestant scholar who has specialized in the study of EO may be found at the following link: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1997/january6/7t1032.html |
I read up to the point where you have to pay to read the rest. |
Oh yeah, I forgot that I had a subscription to CT. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
4/12/17 6:19 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | They do insist, like Catholics, that they are THE original New Testament Church, but they generally do accept the fact that there may be real Christians in other traditions/ |
As I understand their beliefs, Hank Handergraaff had to renounce any form of Christianity he held to the point he converted to EO. In essence, they evangelized him. There is no way that he could have joined them without having completely rejecting what he once taught as grace through faith salvation.
Here is a quote from an article written by someone who seriously researched EO....
| Quote: | | Here is where the Orthodox lost me (or, us): I wasn’t looking for a new faith. To paraphrase Kallistos Ware, I was looking for a “fuller version” of the faith that I already had. This attitude, however, was not enough for many of the real life Eastern Orthodox relationships that I had developed. I was expected to renounce and reject the entirety of my Christian past. All things Protestant were to become an anathema to me. My Orthodox acquaintances were baffled that I didn’t hate all things Western and Protestant as much as they did. I simply couldn’t disqualify all of the grace that I had experienced as a Protestant. I couldn’t bite the hand that had fed me for so long. |
| Quote: | | Orthodox people, laity and priests alike, were delighted to meet with me whenever I had questions because they always enjoyed opportunities for “evangelism.” I didn’t understand how I, someone who had been following Christ for several years, needed to be “evangelized.” I couldn’t, in turn, treat my non-Orthodox friends as if they were non-Christian and “evangelize” them into Orthodoxy. I couldn’t treat them as if they weren’t a part of the authentic Church of Christ. |
| Quote: | | In the end, it wasn’t the theology or the worship which soured me. What soured me was an elitist attitude that several Orthodox embody and what these particular people expected of me. I recall Frank Schaeffer saying in a few of his lectures that “salvation is a mystery” to the Orthodox. Many of the Orthodox that I have known agree with this notion…as long as you are becoming Orthodox. If not, then salvation is no longer so mysterious…because you aren’t acquiring it. As I mentioned before, Kallistos Ware is known for saying that Orthodoxy is a “fuller version of the faith.” Again, many of the Orthodox people that I know would agree as long as you are on your way to becoming Orthodox. If this is not the case, the lesser version of the faith is actually no faith at all. As Metropolitan John Zizioulas notes, “As the late Fr Georges Florovsky likes to repeat, the authentic catholicity of the Church must include both the West and the East.4” Many of the Orthodox that I have known would, again, agree with such a statement as long as the “West” mentioned here is Orthodoxy in the West, not the actual Western Church itself. |
http://www.conciliarpost.com/journeys-of-faith/to-my-eastern-orthodox-friends-am-i-really-a-heretic/
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 6:29 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
If you are saying I haven't seriously researched EO, you are quite mistaken. But, I have no desire to quarrel with anyone about EO. I have in fact weighed it very carefully many years ago, and have rejected it.
That said, it is interesting to note that EO does not require rebaptism of converts from other branches of Christianity, so long as the trinitarian formula was what was used. If they denied completely any validity to any other branch of Christianity, they surely would require baptism of all converts previously baptized in other branches of Christianity.
As far as Hank goes, I was never a fan. His prideful attitude and grating voice have always kept me from listening to him for very long, or paying much attention to him. I agree with most of his criticisms of WoF, but I don't agree with him when he accuses WoFism of being basically more akin to Mormonism than Christianity, for instance. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
4/12/17 6:39 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | If you are saying I haven't seriously researched EO, you are quite mistaken. But, I have no desire to quarrel with anyone about EO. I have in fact weighed it very carefully many years ago, and have rejected it.
That said, it is interesting to note that EO does not require rebaptism of converts from other branches of Christianity, so long as the trinitarian formula was what was used. If they denied completely any validity to any other branch of Christianity, they surely would require baptism of all converts previously baptized in other branches of Christianity.
As far as Hank goes, I was never a fan. His prideful attitude and grating voice have always kept me from listening to him for very long, or paying much attention to him. I agree with most of his criticisms of WoF, but I don't agree with him when he accuses WoFism of being basically more akin to Mormonism than Christianity, for instance. |
No, I do indeed believe you've researched this. To be fair, the article I posted is followed by comments of EO's who do embrace Protestants as brothers.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
4/12/17 6:48 pm
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| Re: More of the same "gotcha" journalism |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | There is a group of people that, either because they really think they are doing a service for the church, or perhaps because they hope to get known for being the one who "exposed" this or that "false" Christian, live to find fault. You know, kind of like OTCP. |
Aaron, from the ole timer's early ministry, I had a bent toward apologetics. As a kid growin up in the church, long for I was called to preach, I was always interested in learnin bout the cults an other religions. When the good Lord called this unworthy feller to preach, all at study under ma belt regardin extra/non-biblical belief systems become a steppin stone for further trainin in the field. Then, when I commenced pastorin, everwhere the ole timer went he encountered these extra/non-biblical beliefs what had infiltrated the thinkin an worldview of good COG folk. So early on, I commenced usin Wed nights for in-depth teaching on doctrine, theology, biblical truth, etc. Me an you might disagree on some stuff (although we probly agree on more than we disagree), but I do truly hope that ma motives/intentions is never misunderstood. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
4/12/17 9:48 pm
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| Re: More of the same "gotcha" journalism |
Cojak |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | There is, it seems, a whole industry of "Christians" devoted to telling others why well-known Christians are NOT Christians, are of the devil, are false prophets, etc.
While we all know that there are certainly going to be those who are not true blue, we have to also discern that there is a group of people that, either because they really think they are doing a service for the church, or perhaps because they hope to get known for being the one who "exposed" this or that "false" Christian, live to find fault. You know, kind of like OTCP. 
We have to discern carefully. If not, we'll take their breathless "findings" as the truth, and find ourselves embarrassed. NO ONE LEFT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH by becoming Greek Orthodox! That church is far older than any Protestant church today, and can make claims of apostolic succession with the best of them.
Yes, the engage in some things we don't care for (icons, etc.). But that doesn't mean it is evil or wrong--certainly no more, I would think, than us having a picture of Jesus in the church.
In any case, good people can disagree. Unfortunately, there is a group of folks that will never allow for tat. You either believe as they do...or you're going to hell! |
h
I like your attitude. I attended a Greek orthodox church in Athens once with our Chaplain. I never understood a word, but SAW and FELT dedication to Christ.
I doubt anyone here is planning to try ANY other faith/religion, nothing wrong with learning of other faith/beliefs, but we are to hold steadfast to what we KNOW is truth 'as we see it'. Had I been raised GO I think if I accepted out LOrd, I would be a Christian.! 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24277
4/12/17 11:25 pm
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