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If you read ...

 
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Post If you read ... Mat
If you read some of the responses on the Facebook page following the video, you may be able to discern a cultural and generation divide in the direction of his ministry from that of the denomination. Considering his "insights" into the top leadership of the denomination, he may have come to understand that in his case where God was leading him would only be encumbered by the competing interest of the denomination and its culture. Perhaps the "tent" was not big enough for a divergent cultural focus. Also, there is a certain amount of time, emotion, commitment and yes, finance involved in the maintaining the hierarchical superstructure of denomination and the institutions which dominate it. I view his action as the final conclusion of why local churches drop the denominational name in the first place. There are unseen fences that keep others out, but also keep us in.

Mat

PS Sorry, did not mean to make this a new subject.
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3/19/17 7:36 am


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Post Let me add to my own post ... Mat
Let me add to my own post, which I did not mean to start in the first place. I thought I was commenting on another thread.

However, there is a process for obtaining credentials in the COG. Is there a formal "Exit Interview" for those who surrender their credentials? It is the loss of a minister in good standing that is of interest. A revocation due to moral failure or lack of faithfulness in reporting/tithing is clear enough. The question I would have as an employer is what are the issues relating to the "best employees" leaving?

Perhaps this is done and the results are being evaluated. Does that influence the organization or simply reinforce the justification for existing polices?

Mat
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3/21/17 9:54 am


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Post sheepdogandy
No one cared to give me an "exit interview". Laughing Laughing Laughing
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3/21/17 10:48 am


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Post Cojak
I just handed mine in, The Overseer said he was disappointed and hated to see me go. But in reality I would have had nothing beneficial to say to him. At the time I had lost all feelings toward God and religion.

To be honest, I think there are a lot in my position who have no other means of earning a livelihood and stay, out of habit.

Also I don't think most leaving the COG (or any other organization) are interested in answering questions.

Unlike Sheepdog, My undoing was MY fault. I do sympathize with SD, he was pushed into a corner, I was not. Embarassed
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3/21/17 11:41 pm


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Post A loss of faith ... Mat
I think the issue of a loss of faith" is a major factor for those leaving the ministry or denomination. I can understand the pressures leading up to resignation/surrender of credentials. When you are numbered (our ministry literately has a number) amount the vast majority of pastors who labor at small to medium churches in which growth is static, talented people are in short supply and funds to minister are always an issue, I'm not sure the denominational leaders promoting just the most successful pastors as role models is as "motivational" as they think.

Over the years I have seen the "role model of the moment" used time and again, and than leave the denomination. I do wonder if the leaders who promote these role models (and by association are trying to enhance their own credibility) do not realize the demoralizing effect it can have on those pastors who set in the meeting knowing this was the standard of ministry they should aspire to. I do think there is a since of failure when leadership is focused on the success modeling approach.

An exit interview might reveal that the successful role model who leaves the denomination is not leaving because of the other pastors, rather he is braking from the leadership and policies the they are committed to. This will not be the last time a role model pastor leaves a denomination. Leaders will always be looking for that next guy to promote.

In my denomination, I have set in such meetings and felt a since of failure in comparison. When the role model leaves I wonder what he knows that I don't, and maybe I should emulate him in leaving. Thoughts about how the work of the denomination is not that important and perhaps they don't value the "work-a-day" pastor can come to the forefront. You can feel stuck in the system if you stay and have a since of "does my ministry matter" as a result.

Just speaking from the heart.

Mat
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3/22/17 7:25 am


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Post Re: A loss of faith ... Cojak
Mat wrote:
I think the issue of a loss of faith" is a major factor for those leaving the ministry or denomination. I can understand the pressures leading up to resignation/surrender of credentials. When you are numbered (our ministry literately has a number) amount the vast majority of pastors who labor at small to medium churches in which growth is static, talented people are in short supply and funds to minister are always an issue, I'm not sure the denominational leaders promoting just the most successful pastors as role models is as "motivational" as they think.

Over the years I have seen the "role model of the moment" used time and again, and than leave the denomination. I do wonder if the leaders who promote these role models (and by association are trying to enhance their own credibility) do not realize the demoralizing effect it can have on those pastors who set in the meeting knowing this was the standard of ministry they should aspire to. I do think there is a since of failure when leadership is focused on the success modeling approach.

An exit interview might reveal that the successful role model who leaves the denomination is not leaving because of the other pastors, rather he is braking from the leadership and policies the they are committed to. This will not be the last time a role model pastor leaves a denomination. Leaders will always be looking for that next guy to promote.

In my denomination, I have set in such meetings and felt a since of failure in comparison. When the role model leaves I wonder what he knows that I don't, and maybe I should emulate him in leaving. Thoughts about how the work of the denomination is not that important and perhaps they don't value the "work-a-day" pastor can come to the forefront. You can feel stuck in the system if you stay and have a since of "does my ministry matter" as a result.

Just speaking from the heart.

Mat


VERY WELL STATED my brother. Cool
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3/22/17 10:08 am


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Post Re: If you read ... Pastor Wright
Mat wrote:
If you read some of the responses on the Facebook page following the video, you may be able to discern a cultural and generation divide in the direction of his ministry from that of the denomination.


I would say that divide exists on a generational level throughout the denomination.
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3/22/17 10:17 am


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Post Re: If you read ... Cojak
Pastor Wright wrote:
Mat wrote:
If you read some of the responses on the Facebook page following the video, you may be able to discern a cultural and generation divide in the direction of his ministry from that of the denomination.


I would say that divide exists on a generational level throughout the denomination.


Yes, I notice that in our local church, that is a valid observation I am sure. Cool
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3/22/17 10:29 am


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Post A few months ago ... Mat
A few months ago there was much discussion on this board about a local church in AL that withdrew from the denomination. It seems that much of what was posted followed the same questions and line of thinking. If I remember there was some "hand wringing" as to the "whys and wherefores" of the departure, along with the vitriolic from various view points.

After a just a few weeks that departure seemed to be left behind in the discussions. If I remember correctly the focus became the coming assembly in Nashville and who would get what job, women voting/ordination, and other topics. As I remember from what was said, the names of leaders changed, but the "seats of power" stayed the same.

That is the "system" in its truest form.

Just something to consider.

Mat
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3/23/17 9:23 am


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Post Re: A few months ago ... Cojak
Mat wrote:
...

That is the "system" in its truest form.

Just something to consider.

Mat


Oh yes, we see that in our nation's Government. The hot topic is going to be the end of the world as we know it, until the new 'thing', scandal or politician bites the dust. Then that all important thing is gone like smoke.

We humans (assisted by the media (of all kinds) have a limited attention span..... Shocked Embarassed

Hey Mat, I like your insight and wit. good comments... Cool
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3/23/17 10:04 am


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Post bonnie knox
Mat wrote:
Over the years I have seen the "role model of the moment" used time and again, and than leave the denomination. I do wonder if the leaders who promote these role models (and by association are trying to enhance their own credibility) do not realize the demoralizing effect it can have on those pastors who set in the meeting knowing this was the standard of ministry they should aspire to. I do think there is a since of failure when leadership is focused on the success modeling approach.


I wonder if the COG leadership has even stopped to consider what you are saying here. Perhaps the underlying problem is how "success" is gauged.
Definitely things to think about, especially in how to encourage and motivate the many pastors in our denomination, who as you say, "labor at small to medium churches in which growth is static, talented people are in short supply and funds to minister are always an issue..." Surely, a system has shortcomings if it is not designed to encourage its average pastor.
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Post Ernie Long
bonnie knox wrote:
I wonder if the COG leadership has even stopped to consider what you are saying here. Perhaps the underlying problem is how "success" is gauged. Definitely things to think about, especially in how to encourage and motivate the many pastors in our denomination, who as you say, "labor at small to medium churches in which growth is static, talented people are in short supply and funds to minister are always an issue..." Surely, a system has shortcomings if it is not designed to encourage its average pastor.


The average pastor to the system is like the average member to the pastor.

There is no reason for the system to contact any pastor unless a pastor is doing exceptionally well or is messing up... either way will get you the system's attention.
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