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 Trumpcare |
Change Agent |
| Anyone worried about their insurance coverage under Trumpcare or do you think it will get cheaper and better? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
3/9/17 4:53 pm
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| It will go higher |
brotherjames |
| The more govt gets involved and the less competition is available the only result is higher prices unless you're on medicaid and then you'll have less coverage than under Obama and I'm for Trump. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/9/17 5:12 pm
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| Re: It will go higher |
c6thplayer1 |
| brotherjames wrote: | | The more govt gets involved and the less competition is available the only result is higher prices unless you're on medicaid and then you'll have less coverage than under Obama and I'm for Trump. |
You have it right James. I really dont see a simple answer to this. I think the whole thing started as nothing more than a freebee for votes under clinton and Obama. Now were stuck with it.
IMO the only answer would be to regulate the outrageous medical prices. No hospital should be allowed to charge $300 for 3 pills you could get at the drug store for 22 cents each. And I would bet the drug store has more than a 50% profit off that. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/9/17 5:32 pm
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| My daughter in law |
brotherjames |
| Broke her kneecap ice skating. The hospital bill and surgeon's cost were over 20000 for a 1 hr sugery. They have excellent insurance and their out of pocket expense is going to be at least 6000. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/9/17 5:36 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Not sure how this would ever work.
Add 20 - 40 million people to insurance networks - who don't have to pay anything.
Prices go down????????????????????????????
Obamacare proved it didn't work.
Same dollars - add 40 million people - care gets worse.
Same care - add 40 million people - costs go up.
Just basic math.
Now, if we kept the same amount of folks covered as previously, you could tweak regulations to allow insurance to cross state lines - and create some competition - and allow medicines to come in from other countries - so we aren't gouged by big pharma - and lower costs there....but insuring everyone is going to cost bigly - any way you slice it...and if a lot of folks are deemed unable to pay for it - then you just have a big expansion of medicare - which will make our seniors basicly have no care in the future.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
3/9/17 5:42 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
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Link |
I hope they totally do away with that last stack of legislation that people are probably still trying to figure out and replace it with something shorter.
I recall Trump saying something I've been saying for years. They need to be trying to lower health care costs.
Some of the health care costs are high because of our own legal and economic system. Our government provides intellectual property (IP) protection for drug patents. It takes a couple decades for patents to go through a long FDA process. Out of numerous drugs they are working on, a few make it. Then the drug companies extract huge profits from a drug during the 10-year period or whatever is left before it generics come on the market for that same drug.
Trump wants to change the system by decreasing the time it takes for drugs to get through the FDA.
I think they could probably get more bang for their buck if they tried to push a lot of the drug creation onto universities, where academics who work in labs might create new drugs to get more publications. They might make an extra hundred thousand a year instead of the billions the drug companies make. If there were a system set up to push these drugs through the FDA at a much lower markup, drug research were government funded and the government had the old drugs that didnt' make it, that might work out better for the consumer economically.
We could also lower the price of doctors by allowing foreign doctors from the most developed countries who make a fraction of what our doctors make into the market. Increase supply and lower the cost of doctor labor. Create scholarships for doctors to produce a glut of doctors on the market.
Push states to allow cheap 24 hour clinics at Walmart. Some state medical associations do not like that.
Give doctors tax breaks up to no taxes at all if they volunteer at free clinics. Some specialists perform a few operations a year.
Encourage states to put caps on how much people can get for injuries, pain, and suffering, and of course, malpractice. Everyone's hand is worth the same. Baseball players and plastic surgeons who make millions with their hands can take out extra insurance policies for their own hands.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/9/17 7:29 pm
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Cojak |
It is naive of folk to think you can just 'replace Obamacare'. This dude is so complicated, wrapped in states agencies, insurance companies, the give aways, the triple costs to the working guy/gal.
I have been in the emergency room three times in my life with family members, The emergency room was FILLED with people with colds, flu, small cuts etc. AND A FEW SERIOUS emergencies As I understand it these folks had no medical coverage. (I know this for a fact for one person whose bill was over 100,000$ and he walked out not paying a penny, a distant family member who was a street person)
For all these people the US Government was picking up the entire tab. SOOOOO The Gov't was paying the bills for the poor.indigent with out the new levels of government employees to administer Obamacare.
WE had socialized medicine for the poor (and some dead beats) Now these folk have their own doctor, and the government is paying the bill but adding more costs.
I am rambling, but this cannot be done in a month. This will have to be phased in over two-four years, the phasing alone will cost MEGA BUCKS.
Cut the Obamacare from 27,000 (?) pages to an understandable bill. RAise the limits of Medicaid and try to make sense out of this MESS!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
3/9/17 11:53 pm
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| An idea or two... |
Aaron Scott |
I have wondered why Congress doesn't pass a law that states that EVERY health insurance company MUST offer a very specific plan we will call the "ABC Plan." It is a standard plan that provides basic coverage.
There could also be an ABC GOLD Plan...ABC SILVER Plan...etc. You get the idea, with expanded coverages. But the key is that the insurance companies, along with any other policies they offer, MUST offer these PRECISE plans--no bells or whistles added. This allows people to make choices based on an apples-to-apples comparison. No more of trying to figure out if this or that plan, which offers a slightly different deductible or co-pay is a better plan than this other one. No, these plans are IDENTICAL, cannot be enhanced or added to (e.g., "AND, if you choose this plan, we will....). It's just the plan...and the price. It is a commodity, so to speak.
Insurance companies, able to cross all state lines, would offer these plans (again, along with other health plans they want to offer). This would promote try competition.
No one could be denied these plans. Pre-existing, fine...but there might be a limit on the total outlays for the plan and perhaps a percentage deductible for certain treatments.
Tax credits could be offered to the people who buy these plans. Also, tax credits for the health insurance companies to help cover the cost of the pre-existing conditions, etc.
Experimental drugs could be provided for those who have certain terminal-type diseases, so long as they agree to not sue if it doesn't work or has other negative effects.
Newborns would be issued a "Health Bond" worth, say, $300,000, payable on the 99th year, and at X percentage. These bonds could be traded on a GOVERNMENT EXCHANGE--which would receive a fee for every trade. This bond could be used to fund healthcare for the child for life, as well as create income for the government, as well as create income for the health care companies that trade the bond on the exchange for a profit, to cut losses, etc.
There should be ONE bill that comes to a person. Not a bill from this doctor, that doctor, and another doctor, etc. The doctors would turn in their bills to the health insurance company which would bill the customer for any amount they owed over insurance coverage.
Also, EVERY doctor must accept these insurance plans, and cannot exclude a patient because he/she has this type of insurance.
There would also be limits (taking into consideration the region, cost of living, etc.) on, say, the Top 50 procedures that is fair to doctors and the customer.
It could be done, I think. Thoughts? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6042
3/10/17 7:26 am
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Carolyn Smith |
| Link wrote: | I hope they totally do away with that last stack of legislation that people are probably still trying to figure out and replace it with something shorter.
I recall Trump saying something I've been saying for years. They need to be trying to lower health care costs.
Some of the health care costs are high because of our own legal and economic system. Our government provides intellectual property (IP) protection for drug patents. It takes a couple decades for patents to go through a long FDA process. Out of numerous drugs they are working on, a few make it. Then the drug companies extract huge profits from a drug during the 10-year period or whatever is left before it generics come on the market for that same drug.
Trump wants to change the system by decreasing the time it takes for drugs to get through the FDA.
I think they could probably get more bang for their buck if they tried to push a lot of the drug creation onto universities, where academics who work in labs might create new drugs to get more publications. They might make an extra hundred thousand a year instead of the billions the drug companies make. If there were a system set up to push these drugs through the FDA at a much lower markup, drug research were government funded and the government had the old drugs that didnt' make it, that might work out better for the consumer economically.
We could also lower the price of doctors by allowing foreign doctors from the most developed countries who make a fraction of what our doctors make into the market. Increase supply and lower the cost of doctor labor. Create scholarships for doctors to produce a glut of doctors on the market.
Push states to allow cheap 24 hour clinics at Walmart. Some state medical associations do not like that.
Give doctors tax breaks up to no taxes at all if they volunteer at free clinics. Some specialists perform a few operations a year.
Encourage states to put caps on how much people can get for injuries, pain, and suffering, and of course, malpractice. Everyone's hand is worth the same. Baseball players and plastic surgeons who make millions with their hands can take out extra insurance policies for their own hands. |
The long FDA process is for OUR safety. Not sure I want to do away with that. This assures somebody is not making it in their bathtub. The 17 years drug companies have on their product gets them the $ they spent developing the drug (in which time they make nothing.) Shorten the patent period to 10 years instead of 17, maybe.
Allow foreign doctors? Who do you think are in OUR medical schools in the US? Every year when I see the list of new residents, the foreign names far outweigh the American ones. Please...we need a few docs who speak English well!
Income for doctors has gone down significantly since the introduction of ACA. Every doctor's office now has to have electronic health records, which costs big bucks to implement. That's why some docs have shut their doors or associated their office with a larger system or conglomerate so the system pays for that.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
3/10/17 7:44 am
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Carolyn Smith |
| Cojak wrote: | It is naive of folk to think you can just 'replace Obamacare'. This dude is so complicated, wrapped in states agencies, insurance companies, the give aways, the triple costs to the working guy/gal.
I have been in the emergency room three times in my life with family members, The emergency room was FILLED with people with colds, flu, small cuts etc. AND A FEW SERIOUS emergencies As I understand it these folks had no medical coverage. (I know this for a fact for one person whose bill was over 100,000$ and he walked out not paying a penny, a distant family member who was a street person)
For all these people the US Government was picking up the entire tab. SOOOOO The Gov't was paying the bills for the poor.indigent with out the new levels of government employees to administer Obamacare.
WE had socialized medicine for the poor (and some dead beats) Now these folk have their own doctor, and the government is paying the bill but adding more costs.
I am rambling, but this cannot be done in a month. This will have to be phased in over two-four years, the phasing alone will cost MEGA BUCKS.
Cut the Obamacare from 27,000 (?) pages to an understandable bill. RAise the limits of Medicaid and try to make sense out of this MESS! |
You are correct that this isn't going to be fixed easily. Because the purpose of the ACA was control not healthcare, they have wrapped this thing into many areas of life.
Got a news flash for you, though. The government is not automatically picking up the tab for poor folks. Unless they have ACA or Medicare/Medicaid, it is the hospital that is picking up the tab and losing money like crazy. And now it is more the middle class folks who don't have insurance because they simply can't afford it. And the hospital picks up the tab again when they don't have insurance.
If we could get the non-emergencies out of the ER, it would help tremendously. Some of that needs to come through education and probably an incentive to get folks to want to go elsewhere.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
3/10/17 7:50 am
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c6thplayer1 |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: |
- and allow medicines to come in from other countries - so we aren't gouged by big pharma - and lower costs there..... |
I had to take some Alka Seltzer recently for a cold. I had two packages in the cabinet. While looking for the Expiration date I found that one package was made in Germany and the Other in Mexico. So OTC drugs are ok to import but not prescription based drugs????? Why? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/10/17 10:25 am
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Link |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: |
The long FDA process is for OUR safety. Not sure I want to do away with that. This assures somebody is not making it in their bathtub. The 17 years drug companies have on their product gets them the $ they spent developing the drug (in which time they make nothing.) Shorten the patent period to 10 years instead of 17, maybe. |
I studied the drug industry for an MBA project, but forget the details. But if I remember right, the seven or ten years at the end is when the drug companies actually make their money. If they shorten the patent to 10 years, there goes the industry for producing drugs.
Drug companies make drugs for billions of dollars. Academics will work really hard to churn out academic publications so they can stay marketable on the job market and move up the ranks. I'm guessing doctors in academia make several hundreds of thousands of dollars. If the government could motivate individuals or teams of scientists to come up with drugs, instead of relying on drug companies investing in these projects to make billions, that may be a cheaper system. The less marketable drugs that treat diseases that effect small numbers of people might be of interest to academics, while drug companies want the drugs they can sell at a high price to large numbers of people.
This topic makes me think of the first scene in this video clip:
https://youtu.be/3EAsV2hXOxE?t=13
| Quote: |
Allow foreign doctors? Who do you think are in OUR medical schools in the US? Every year when I see the list of new residents, the foreign names far outweigh the American ones. Please...we need a few docs who speak English well! |
I was thinking more along the lines of British, Australian, New Zealand, and German doctors. A lot of Germans speak good English. We could allow Japanese doctors, but English would be a problem And I mean foreign trained doctors, but only from countries whose medical systems we trust.
I don't remember what the ratio is, but I hear European doctors work for much less. If they could make more in the US, more than they make in Europe, but lower than US doctors make, that could put downward pressure on doctor's salaries.
| Quote: |
Income for doctors has gone down significantly since the introduction of ACA. Every doctor's office now has to have electronic health records, which costs big bucks to implement. That's why some docs have shut their doors or associated their office with a larger system or conglomerate so the system pays for that. |
So the government actually raised the cost of medical care. High medical costs were the real problem to begin with.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/10/17 1:26 pm
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| Trumpcare |
Change Agent |
When someone on this board gets Trumpcare insurance that is comparable and cheaper than Obamacare please let everyone on the board know where we can rejoice with you.
A new better day is dawning. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
3/10/17 5:19 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| If the GOP repeals Obamacare, Trump has said over and over that EVERYBODY will be covered under his new and improved government-controlled (and government-subsidized) plan. So all the Trumpeters who were so gung ho about Trump repealing and replacing Obamacare simply didn't listen to him very closely during the election and prior. He has been very consistent in his strong promotion of socialized medicine over the years, and continued with the same talking points on that during his campaign. So it appears we will all just have to get used to the idea of socialized medicine. Great job, Trumpeters. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
3/10/17 7:20 pm
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Cojak |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | If the GOP repeals Obamacare, Trump has said over and over that EVERYBODY will be covered under his new and improved government-controlled (and government-subsidized) plan. So all the Trumpeters who were so gung ho about Trump repealing and replacing Obamacare simply didn't listen to him very closely during the election and prior. He has been very consistent in his strong promotion of socialized medicine over the years, and continued with the same talking points on that during his campaign. So it appears we will all just have to get used to the idea of socialized medicine. Great job, Trumpeters. |
To tell the truth about my thoughts, After the fiasco of the AC legislation and delivery and now that it is in place, IT IS NOT GOING AWAY. I now feel that our best bet is The Canadian plan and forget another layer of bureaucracy. YOu have Medicaid in place and it works, I am not always happy with it, but the offices and system is in place and has been there for years. Move half the Obamacare hires to Medicare-Medicaid, IT MIGHT work, but I am a simple guy.
Aaron had some great ideas, it seemed on the surface.
BUT TO BE HONEST BASICALLY THIS IS GOING TO BE A FARCE. ALREADY the so-called real conservatives are FIGHTING anyone they want to call a RINO, as has been for years now. Plus the Democrats are vowing NO Democrat will get on-board. So we have GRIDLOCK and Obamacare rolls along.  Republicans and Democrats have all (it seems) taken stupid pills, forget the citizens, I want to protect my political territory.
BTW all this was coming if CRUZ, Bush, Kasinic (?), CArson or even Sharpton had gotten in. Trumpeteers just thought he could bypass it, but we/they forgot about the Tweet machine! LOL
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
3/10/17 10:49 pm
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UncleJD |
| Competition across state-lines will lead to lower premiums. The key to lowering costs is making people responsible for their expenditures. The HSA is the best way to do it, put matching funds in with your own savings, make the money yours, then people will stop trying to bilk their insurance out of every wasteful trip for colds or toe-aches and start using it when it's actually needed. I started using an HSA a few years back and rarely ever went to the doctor because it just wasn't that critical. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
3/13/17 12:44 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
My sisters on Obamacare. Her insurance cost her $30 a month. Sound good?
It is until she has to use it. Her deductible is over $7100.00. Almost like having no insurance at all except she donates 30 bucks each month to the insurance company. BTW the government subsidizes over $8000 a year to the insurance company for this garbage.
If you bought that same insurance for $600 bucks a month your deductible would only be around 500 dollars. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
3/13/17 1:07 pm
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