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"Should Members Keep Giving Money to a Church That Refuses to Disclose the Pastor's Salary?" (L) |
bonnie knox |
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Now Miss Bonnie, you go takin a sabbatical, then come back, an the first thing ya aks is bout the preacher's salary. You been sifted through the minute book? |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 2/22/17 10:20 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Bonnie,
Should they? _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16629 2/22/17 10:46 am
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c6thplayer1 |
Just put in cash and make sure he knows about it.
But really , I would not give very much if any at all if the salaries were secret. There are to many other churches that are honest and above board to live in that kind of abuse. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 2/22/17 10:59 am
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bonnie knox |
Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Bonnie,
Should they? |
No.
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[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 2/22/17 1:42 pm
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Cojak |
bonnie knox wrote: | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Bonnie,
Should they? |
No.
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I agree, but I have never asked, I'm not around enough. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24282 2/22/17 5:19 pm
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Cojak |
There is a lot I agree with in the post reference. I find little justification in million plus salaries when missionaries and members are near poverty.
I also find no scriptural benchmark for wealthy apostles/prophets.
I did like one statement:
When the profits are gone , many 'Prophets' will be gone! _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24282 2/22/17 5:30 pm
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One of the posts on the site |
brotherjames |
says this:
Quote: | PM UNITED STATES on Thu Feb 16, 2017 at 10:54 AM said:
I’m a pastor. I’m all for transparency. And this seems to be a very fair, worthwhile critique of megachurches.
But as one who makes less than $50,000, with a church budget of $750,000+, I can also speak from experience and tell you that there are people out there who will use salary information (especially if it is deemed to be slightly above ‘modest’ in the individual’s eyes) to shame, manipulate, and power-play. It can create an unhealthy culture in the church in which members will begin to nitpick each and every spending purchase by the pastor. Can we attend to this side of the conversation as well?
Can we attend to the other side |
IS this a legitimate concern? While the abuses of mega churches get the notoriety is that fair to lump all the rest of the "normal" churches in that lump? If there is an accountability for every dollar in every other area but salaries are lumped together into one heading and they are not disproportional to the whole why do you need to know the individual pastor's salary?
I know Bonnie has been waiting for me to respond and didn't want to disappoint her. Perhaps she's concerned I am not paid enough, I'm not. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 935 2/22/17 5:57 pm
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Re: One of the posts on the site |
Cojak |
brotherjames wrote: | says this:
Quote: | ...Can we attend to this side of the conversation as well?
Can we attend to the other side |
IS this a legitimate concern? .... |
Of course it is a concern, and is a fact. But from what I hear there will be naturally some concerns when it is first disclosed on a financial report. Much depends on the pastor's attitude with the 'questions'.
We are dealing with God's people and God's money here. It always bothers me to see or hear of the 'Us against them', attitude. We are in this together and hope to leave together. My daddy said, "It is hard to get upset with a man who is on his knees a lot of the time." _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24282 2/22/17 6:10 pm
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sheepdogandy |
You can always send your money to us.
My salary is posted on the vestibule bulletin board for the world to see.
Just go to the website. _________________ Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7304 2/22/17 6:33 pm
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Re: One of the posts on the site |
c6thplayer1 |
brotherjames wrote: | says this:
Quote: | PM UNITED STATES on Thu Feb 16, 2017 at 10:54 AM said:
I’m a pastor. I’m all for transparency. And this seems to be a very fair, worthwhile critique of megachurches.
But as one who makes less than $50,000, with a church budget of $750,000+, I can also speak from experience and tell you that there are people out there who will use salary information (especially if it is deemed to be slightly above ‘modest’ in the individual’s eyes) to shame, manipulate, and power-play. It can create an unhealthy culture in the church in which members will begin to nitpick each and every spending purchase by the pastor. Can we attend to this side of the conversation as well?
Can we attend to the other side |
If there is an accountability for every dollar in every other area but salaries are lumped together into one heading and they are not disproportional to the whole why do you need to know the individual pastor's salary?
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If the dollars are accounted for in every other area then why not account for the same dollars in the salaries dept?
When they are not how can one determine what is and is not disproportional? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 2/22/17 7:08 pm
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We have 10 paid staff |
brotherjames |
My church knows and trusts us to do our best without excess. OUR total salaries for 10 people are proportional and our deacon board whom they elect sets the salaries. Not an issue here. And in my opinion it's just easier to not create unnecessary problems. Someone making 20000 will find fault with 25000 being paid to someone he helps pay their salary. Why go there in the first place. We trust each other. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 935 2/22/17 9:00 pm
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bonnie knox |
If you trust each other, you CAN go there. That's what trust means. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 2/22/17 9:31 pm
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Re: We have 10 paid staff |
c6thplayer1 |
brotherjames wrote: | My church knows and trusts us to do our best without excess. OUR total salaries for 10 people are proportional and our deacon board whom they elect sets the salaries. Not an issue here. And in my opinion it's just easier to not create unnecessary problems. Someone making 20000 will find fault with 25000 being paid to someone he helps pay their salary. Why go there in the first place. We trust each other. |
Our church has a detailed list of expenses and salaries. No problem here. I really think our pastor , like a lot of other pastors , is underpaid. I would much rather deal with an individual who would be upset about someones salary than to hide the expenses and risk alienating others.
The right thing is always the right way to go. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 2/22/17 9:51 pm
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Re: We have 10 paid staff |
Cojak |
c6thplayer1 wrote: | ... I would much rather deal with an individual who would be upset about someones salary than to hide the expenses and risk alienating others.
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I like that my friend. I like your logic! _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
Last edited by Cojak on 2/22/17 11:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24282 2/22/17 9:58 pm
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bonnie knox |
Our church lists salaries individually. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 2/22/17 10:06 pm
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As you know, I respectfully disagree |
brotherjames |
Believe me when I tell you I am underpaid and took a cut several years ago to ensure others would get enough. I just dont believe it's anyone's business what I or my staff make. I disagree on principle period. And your comment about trust misses the point. Oh well. I'm done. TTFN |
Acts-celerater Posts: 935 2/22/17 11:16 pm
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Re: As you know, I respectfully disagree |
c6thplayer1 |
brotherjames wrote: | Believe me when I tell you I am underpaid and took a cut several years ago to ensure others would get enough. I just dont believe it's anyone's business what I or my staff make. I disagree on principle period. And your comment about trust misses the point. Oh well. I'm done. TTFN |
Would you agree with everyone paying tithes in cash with no names attached even if the tithes took a dive? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 2/23/17 10:08 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Non profits in America should post every expenditure - it's how we choose whether to give or not.
If you don't want to post - incorporate as a for profit - and pay taxes.
Churches should not be able to skirt standard non profit practice. _________________ Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16629 2/23/17 10:22 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
There really is no good reason to try to keep any church business secret. If anything, Christian organizations should be the most willing of all to be fully transparent. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12802 2/23/17 10:42 am
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