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brotherjames

God fortunately looks at our hearts

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/3/16 6:07 pm**

But as the following scriptures show us words mean things. Out of our heart our mouth speaks. If you choose to say "your head is killing you" when you have a migraine, I will be happy to agree with you if you like and thereby when two agree it shall be done for them.

In the following passages the word "idle" literally means "barren" dead, without life. So you explain to me what you should think about these scriptures.
Matt 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/3/16 7:27 pm**

Yes. It is quite characteristic of WoFers to have little to no appreciation of metaphor in their thinking. Virtually everything is strictly literal with them.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/3/16 8:26 pm**

By the way, I found out not long after that my 'negative confession' had absolutely nothing to do with my headaches. Turned out it was the NutraSweet in the Diet Cokes I was drinking that was causing my migraines. Since I cut out Diet Cokes and all artificial sweeteners over 20 years ago, I haven't had a single migraine. I thank God for directing me to read in a health magazine about the dangers of aspartame.

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **6/3/16 9:35 pm**

I agree with brotherjames. What we say and how we say it is important.

But oh, the kicker we church folks struggle with - BALANCE! I don't think if I say "I died laughing!" that I"m inviting death. But at the same time, if I say, "I think I'm coming down with something..." I probably will! There's got to be a balance with the positive/negative confession.

I have no idea what Quiet Wyatt is talking about atonement.

OTCP, it's not my intention to defend errant doctrine. My former pastor always taught we should "eat the meat and spit the bones." The wisdom comes in knowing which is which. Smile

I guess it is just part of who I am to stick up for the underdog. LOL
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Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/4/16 12:43 am**

Carolyn,

In a nutshell, the WoF movement (including Hagin, Copeland, Price, Capps, Joyce Meyers, etc.) all teach that the blood of Jesus didn't complete the atonement, but that in order to accomplish the atonement, Jesus had to literally become sinful, took on the sinful nature, actually becoming the greatest sinner of all on Calvary, suffered three days in Hell under the domination of the Devil, until He was 'spiritually dead' like any sinner. Then, they say, God caused Him to be born again in Hell, after which He defeated the Devil in Hell, taking the keys of death from him, then rising triumphant in the resurrection. This whole fanciful blasphemy they teach as a special revelation from God, though the true source of this outright denial of the sinlessness and Deity of Christ is the writings of E.W. Kenyon, early 20th century mind-science cultist of note, whose writings pervade the teachings of modern WoF teachers.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/4/16 12:58 am**

Had I listened to my WoF friend, I would still be having weekly migraines today, no matter how much 'faith' I might've mustered up. Thankfully I ignored her ridiculous rebuke/advice that I must stop making a 'negative confession' and start making a positive confession, and instead was led by God to find the real answer and permanent solution to the problem. My confession wasn't wrong; my consumption of aspartame was making my head feel like it was killing me. I have sadly known of others who ended up dead, positively confessing they were healed, all the while refusing common sense about their health.

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **6/4/16 1:13 am**

Carolyn Smith

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5923 **6/4/16 1:39 am**

brotherjames

Atonement error

Acts-celerater Posts: 935 **6/4/16 8:11 am**

I quite agree about WOF error on atonement. E W Kenyon was the one that taught Jesus died spiritually and Hagin picked it up and then all his followers taught it as truth. Jesus was always God. How can God be seperated from himself? Jesus died physically only. He NEVER became SIN He became an offering a propitiation for our sin. This is the result of not studying and applying the Old Testament properly if you only study the NT you will never understand what Jesus did at Calvary and beyond. The OT sacrificial system was the forerunner of what Jesus would do. The animals were never sin they were sacrifices for sin. Big difference. Kenyon was wrong and the verse 2 Cor. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him is a bad translation in the KJV. It promotes this idea but a better translation is He who knew no sin became an offering for sin. Quietis totally right on this one.

Aaron Scott

Reminds me of the Jewish leaders at the foot of the cross...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/4/16 7:21 pm**

"He could save others, but cannot save Himself."

Hmmmm....

I wonder if they were Pharisees?

It is appointed to ALL men to die.

Further, EVEN IF WOF WERE ABSOLUTELY TRUE...that doesn't mean that a person always has the faith to believe. Or that it wasn't time, etc.

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: Reminds me of the Jewish leaders at the foot of the cross...

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **6/5/16 12:44 pm**

bonnie knox

Re: God fortunately looks at our hearts

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **6/5/16 1:58 pm**

What is interesting to me is the lack of compassion or empathy that WOFers have when someone else expresses his pain or sickness, weariness, or other difficult circumstance. So if someone's head is killing him, a WOFer might prefer to jump on him for daring to use the word "killing" rather than having empathy for someone who is obviously suffering greatly.
Jesus was often described as being "moved with compassion." I sometimes see WOFers who seem to have none.

What's more, I see a kind of superstition in the way some people are applying what they think is faith. I could liken it to people who think it is unlucky to walk under a ladder or step on a crack in the sidewalk. It's as if saying, "My head is killing me," one is putting a jinx on himself and might actually die. Saying, "I feel like I'm catching a cold," doesn't give you a cold. A virus gives you a cold. Witch doctors believe in chants. Saying over and over that you aren't catching a cold is like repeating a chant.

Now, the context of the idle words. The Pharisees had just attributed Christ's ability to cast out devils to the work of Beelzebub. Their unbelief in Christ was in their hearts and it came out of their mouth.

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Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 **6/5/16 3:54 pm**

There was a preacher who got ready to preach as a guest speaker at a church. He said, "Pray for me because I feel like I'm going to throw up."

Someone else said, "Don't say that. That's a negative confession."

He said, "Okay, pray for me because I am positive that if you don't, I'm about to throw up."
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Old Time Country Preacher

Re: God fortunately looks at our hearts

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **6/5/16 8:47 pm**

Aaron Scott

If WOFers believe Jesus went to Hell, they came by it honestly.

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/6/16 7:12 pm**

The Bible does say that He BECAME sin.

The Bible does say that Jesus went to hell.

It is a perfectly legitimate take--even if you and I do not agree with it--to hold that these things happened.

Further, and Quiet Wyatt, I think you need to take care here, we must not call every Christian that we disagree with "blasphemous." That's HOGWASH.

You don't agree with OSAS? You call it blasphemy.

You don't agree with WOF? You call it blasphemy.

Do you not realize that some of the finest Christians on earth believe these things? Do you think that God is going to permit them into heaven if they are blasphemers? That's a contradiction.

Blasphemy certainly has an intentional element to it, don't you think? Or do you believe one can unintentionally blaspheme the Holy Ghost (and if so, how do you know you haven't already done it?). If these folks are in ERROR, that's one thing. But I tire of people who try to twist the other side into some demonic, blasphemous outrage so that others will hate it as much as they do.

If God has called them clean, how dare we call them blasphemers!

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: If WOFers believe Jesus went to Hell, they came by it honestly.

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **6/6/16 7:29 pm**

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/6/16 7:31 pm**

It is absolutely heretical and blasphemous to say that Jesus became a sinful, wretched being under the domination of the Devil, died spiritually, and had to be born again in Hell. It simply is, no matter how much you may whine and cry about me speaking the truth about it.

It is a horrendous, blasphemous thing to claim that one can be truly saved while at the same time living in outright rebellion against Jesus.

Yeah, I know you don't like it when I speak the truth about some of blasphemies YOU love to defend, Aaron. I will NEVER be sorry for it.

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 **6/6/16 7:40 pm**

And for the record, it is simply not the case that I call every Christian that I disagree with heretics or blasphemers. I only call those that are, what they are.

Aaron Scott

Quiet Wyatt...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **6/6/16 10:23 pm**

Bro, if you want to believe that those with whom you disagree are blasphemous, go right ahead. I can't imagine stopping you. But you ARE wrong.

You may be DEAD RIGHT about the matter doctrinally. But you are DEAD WRONG to call fellow Christians blasphemous when they are born-again and are simply following the scriptures as they see it.

Again, you are demonizing virtually every position you argue against! In most cases, the people who believe the things you demonize are very sincere Christians. Instead of thinking it ERROR (which is may very well be), you want to turn up the heat...and that chokes off honest discussion.

You don't have to like another's doctrine, but virtually EVERY doctrine can be demonized. I think doing that is no better that MacArthur demonizing the Pentecostal movement.

Error is not, in itself, blasphemy. And we tread dangerously close to speaking evil of another's servant when, instead of realizing that this is simply people who have interpreted it differently and are, thus, in need of instruction, we instead pretty much tell them they are going to hell.

I am simply not going to do that every time I don't agree with someone. I and my beliefs, that I came to absolutely sincerely and honestly, have been called heretical and blasphemous...and whether anyone else knows it or not, I KNOW that my heart is right with the Lord.

It is just improper to push the nuclear button on doctrines that DO have some support in scripture...even if our take on those same scriptures leads us elsewhere.