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Andy Stanley: "We have virtually NO FORMAL LEADERSHIP training."

 
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Post Andy Stanley: "We have virtually NO FORMAL LEADERSHIP training." doyle
I'm reading the excellent book "Deep And Wide" by Andy Stanley. It would be difficult to be more transparent than he is in this powerful book. And, he shares some of the thinking and ideas used at the massive North Point congregation.

So, I'm reading along and on page 79, come across a statement where Stanley says, "We have virtually no formal leadership training." Screech. Back up and read again, and it SAYS THE SAME THING!.

In the third paragraph down on Page 79, he says, "We put people into leadership roles too early ON PURPOSE. We operate under the assumption that adults learn on a need-to-know basis. The sooner they discover what they don't know, the sooner they will be interested in learning what they need to know.

"We have new believers attempting to lead beyond their maturity. We think that is A GOOD THING. At times it causes problems but we like those kinds of problems.

"We encourage our teens to lead small groups with kids just two or three years younger than they are. We encourage nonbelievers to sign up for short-term mission trips, but we don't let them lead (the trip). It would be easier not to let them go at all. Once again, we opt for messy over easy.

"We let nonbelievers serve in as many roles as possible. Sometimes too many, but we don't allow them to serve everywhere. We allow people to serve in the parking lot that we don't allow to volunteer in children's ministries. We allow musicians to play on stage who we would not allow to lead worship.

Our doctrinal statement is conservative. Our approach to ministry is not."
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Last edited by doyle on 3/12/16 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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3/10/16 8:52 pm


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Post Change Agent
Most churches I have knowledge of require gray hair to be first requirement of leadership. Tithing is next. Laughing Acts Enthusiast
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3/11/16 7:47 am


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Post Something to be said for the gray heads-- bonnie knox
Proverbs 16:31
The hoary head is a crown of glory, if it be found in the way of righteousness.

Change Agent wrote:
Most churches I have knowledge of require gray hair to be first requirement of leadership. Tithing is next. Laughing


In Paul's instructions to Timothy, he does mention people being 'proven' before being bishops or deacons. I have to think that wisdom and maturity are necessary to leadership. Perhaps this can happen at a young age (as with Timothy), but Paul did warn of the danger of placing a 'novice,' at least in the leadership position of bishop.
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3/11/16 12:02 pm


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Post Truman Here M Truman Smith
Bonnie you are right on. I was informed by folk brighter and Smarter than I , " that the Jews require any Rabbi to be 30 years old" . If I have been wrongfully informed please let me know . God Bless .IMOP the church world would be better served if this was the requirement of church today . God Bless . T Hey, DOC
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3/11/16 4:33 pm


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Post Don't need a Masters to park cars or play a guitar doyle
I don't think Stanley is talking about training people to be a Rabbi or an ordained bishop or deacon. As far as I know, that level of training is not necessary to let people serve in the parking lot, play music or do other volunteer activities at the church.

Most of us learned by doing and thereby, also formed influential associations that ultimately led us deeper into preparation for Kingdom work. I think that is probably what Stanley was talking about.

Doyle
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Post bonnie knox
Quote:
We have new believers attempting to lead beyond their maturity. We think that is A GOOD THING.


I was just using the bishop and deacon verses as examples.

Taken at face value, I don't see how having someone attempting to lead beyond their maturity is a good thing.
How can leadership be effective if the leader is not mature?
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Post He has been Successful RandallScottSimms
Andy Stanley has been very successful in his method and style of leadership. One area I personally have difficulty with is allowing anyone to be a part of the worship team that are nonbelievers. I have always considered that a leadership position in that you are out in front of everyone leading them in worship. Perhaps not THE LEADER but a leader in a way.

However, I do like the way he thinks on getting people involved quickly and the learning that occurs when they are involved.
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3/12/16 10:56 am


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Post Link
If 'leading' is something with just a bit of responsibility, that might not be a bad thing to do. Jesus sent the 12 out to preach, and they went right into it. I wonder how ready they felt?

But putting someone green into an eldership position with a lot of influence (or control) over someone else's life would be dangerous.

There was a church that had a big campus outreach that had really new converts discipling slightly newer converts, checking their schedules to see what they did all day, accusing them of all kinds of sin in 'breaking sessions' where they'd break down and try. It seemed to me that they were giving novices a lot of control over other new believers, a type of control you wouldn't see elders exercise in most churches.

But I don't think it is necessarily wrong to have a relatively new believer lead or organize a Bible study if the people don't put him up on a pedastal as some kind of authority and if he doesn't have a lot of control over their lives. Not every believer in every ministry has to meet the requirements for bishop or deacon. Some all believers in fellowship should meet, but there are others that may come with time or maturity.
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3/12/16 3:41 pm


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Post Don't surprise me! 4golf
This comment from Stanley don't surprise me!
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3/12/16 8:47 pm


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Post Cojak
I think I have read some ministers on this forum express basically the same as Doyle has quoted Andy as saying. These are successful Godly men.

You cannot legislate leadership. And it is a fact no matter what degree you hold, you learn leadership by doing! Most of the men on this forum have been there-Done that! Cool

Either as pastors or business Men. Smile
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3/12/16 11:07 pm


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Post c6thplayer1
Quote:
We allow musicians to play on stage who we would not allow to lead worship.


We have one of those on the drums. I just have to deal with him a bit different than the others.
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3/13/16 9:38 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
I heard ole Andy's done taught his praise team the followin chorus:

We don't need no formal trainin,
We just use them right or wrong
No need for standards among our leaders,
Hey, teachers, leave my team alone. Cool
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3/13/16 9:45 pm


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Post bonnie knox
You rock, Ole Timer. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/13/16 10:07 pm


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