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Quiet Wyatt |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | What is a bit confusing to me is that if what Kenneth Copeland did was not correct, why did the Holy Ghost speak through Jan as he laid hands on her? |
It appears to me that she was just praying. I don't find Copeland's 'interpretation of tongues' afterwards to be genuine. Everything in a given service is not somehow validated as 100% of God just because someone speaks in tongues. No disrespect meant to Jan at all. I do not doubt her sincerity one bit. |
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3/8/16 3:08 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | | What is a bit confusing to me is that if what Kenneth Copeland did was not correct, why did the Holy Ghost speak through Jan as he laid hands on her? |
Did Copeland speak through Jan Lowery, or was it the Holy Spirit? Not shore what Copeland has to do with the Holy Spirit speaking through Jan. |
Suppose for a moment it was not KC laying hands on her and she began to speak in tongues emphatically. Usually if a minister lays hands on someone and they begin to speak in tongues, one gets the impression that God is using the minister laying hands on the person to minister to them or that they are receiving something from God.
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3/8/16 7:24 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| bonnie knox wrote: | If what Kenneth Copeland did WAS correct, shouldn't there be scripture to validate it?
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | What is a bit confusing to me is that if what Kenneth Copeland did was not correct, why did the Holy Ghost speak through Jan as he laid hands on her? |
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Probably...though I'm not sure everything we do in the NT church has a scripture to validate it. I was a bit taken aback by this myself.
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3/8/16 7:28 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | | What is a bit confusing to me is that if what Kenneth Copeland did was not correct, why did the Holy Ghost speak through Jan as he laid hands on her? |
It appears to me that she was just praying. I don't find Copeland's 'interpretation of tongues' afterwards to be genuine. Everything in a given service is not somehow validated as 100% of God just because someone speaks in tongues. No disrespect meant to Jan at all. I do not doubt her sincerity one bit. |
I don't feel comfortable making that distinction. But I will say that what I know of Steve & Jan's early ministry at National, what was spoken lined up. I do agree that speaking in tongues does not necessarily validate what happens.
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3/8/16 7:31 pm
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bonnie knox |
I'm not talking about doing things that aren't in scripture but are not against scripture (musical instruments in a NT worship service, for example). I'm talking about using personal experiences as a measure of whether something is of God or not. Pentecostals seem to measure things by whether they are "powerful," "anointed," etc., sometimes, unfortunately, without regard to whether they measure up to scripture.
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | If what Kenneth Copeland did WAS correct, shouldn't there be scripture to validate it?
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | What is a bit confusing to me is that if what Kenneth Copeland did was not correct, why did the Holy Ghost speak through Jan as he laid hands on her? |
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Probably...though I'm not sure everything we do in the NT church has a scripture to validate it. I was a bit taken aback by this myself. |
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3/8/16 7:45 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| bonnie knox wrote: | I'm not talking about doing things that aren't in scripture but are not against scripture (musical instruments in a NT worship service, for example). I'm talking about using personal experiences as a measure of whether something is of God or not. Pentecostals seem to measure things by whether they are "powerful," "anointed," etc., sometimes, unfortunately, without regard to whether they measure up to scripture.
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Let's not distract from what the issue is. Are we discussing personal experiences as a measurement or if this scriptural or not? Or if this is against scripture?
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3/8/16 11:29 pm
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bonnie knox |
Carolyn, I'm addressing the issue as directly as I know how. You seemed confused by whether it could be incorrect because you said the Holy Spirit spoke through Jan.
That's judging it by the experiential. If something has to be of God because someone spoke in tongues, that is judging it by the experiential and not necessarily by the scriptural. That's one of the problems with tongues in Pentecostal churches. Hardly anyone wants to call out something as unscriptural if it involves someone speaking in tongues. Hardly anyone is willing to say speaking in tongues could be a mere emotional response. Therefore, whenever someone speaks in tongues, it seems to be taken as a token of the Holy Spirits approval of whatever is happening.
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | I'm not talking about doing things that aren't in scripture but are not against scripture (musical instruments in a NT worship service, for example). I'm talking about using personal experiences as a measure of whether something is of God or not. Pentecostals seem to measure things by whether they are "powerful," "anointed," etc., sometimes, unfortunately, without regard to whether they measure up to scripture.
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Let's not distract from what the issue is. Are we discussing personal experiences as a measurement or if this scriptural or not? Or if this is against scripture? |
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3/8/16 11:39 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Carolyn, I'm addressing the issue as directly as I know how. You seemed confused by whether it could be incorrect because you said the Holy Spirit spoke through Jan.
That's judging it by the experiential. If something has to be of God because someone spoke in tongues, that is judging it by the experiential and not necessarily by the scriptural. That's one of the problems with tongues in Pentecostal churches. Hardly anyone wants to call out something as unscriptural if it involves someone speaking in tongues. Hardly anyone is willing to say speaking in tongues could be a mere emotional response. Therefore, whenever someone speaks in tongues, it seems to be taken as a token of the Holy Spirits approval of whatever is happening.
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | I'm not talking about doing things that aren't in scripture but are not against scripture (musical instruments in a NT worship service, for example). I'm talking about using personal experiences as a measure of whether something is of God or not. Pentecostals seem to measure things by whether they are "powerful," "anointed," etc., sometimes, unfortunately, without regard to whether they measure up to scripture.
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Let's not distract from what the issue is. Are we discussing personal experiences as a measurement or if this scriptural or not? Or if this is against scripture? |
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I agree that doesn't always work, Bonnie. And I was taught by "Pentecostal tradition" that if the Holy Ghost "seals" such a moment , it is His stamp of approval. I realize that's not scriptural but it's hard to undo in my mind. I realize that can lead to error and one must be careful with that. But I also have a healthy respect for the Holy Spirit and speaking against Him in any way.
IMHO, that was not an emotional response, and she was not the only one responding.
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3/9/16 12:20 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
If tongues is a stamp of approval, then perhaps this display is approval of what is happening in this service.
https://vimeo.com/382837 |
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3/9/16 12:41 am
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Carolyn Smith |
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Link |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I have known Bro Lowery all of my life. I love Bro Lowery. I am assuming Steve Lowery invited Ken Copeland to speak at his Dad's funeral. They are friends. I get it. I have never seen, nor understand, Biblically, what Insaw in that video. A preacher transferred an anointing from a dead man to his son and proclaimed it to be a 10 fold anointing. im not saying it's wrong. I'm saying I don't understand and don't know by what scripture there is an authority to do such. I love Steve and Janice Lowery. |
Copeland said Jesus told him to.
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3/14/16 9:45 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Link wrote: | | Eddie Robbins wrote: | | I have known Bro Lowery all of my life. I love Bro Lowery. I am assuming Steve Lowery invited Ken Copeland to speak at his Dad's funeral. They are friends. I get it. I have never seen, nor understand, Biblically, what Insaw in that video. A preacher transferred an anointing from a dead man to his son and proclaimed it to be a 10 fold anointing. im not saying it's wrong. I'm saying I don't understand and don't know by what scripture there is an authority to do such. I love Steve and Janice Lowery. |
Copeland said Jesus told him to. |
Copeland has said Jesus told him a lot of things, most of which no biblical basis can be found. |
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3/14/16 11:20 pm
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clevelandgrad |
Mr. OTCP,
For me Kenneth Copeland is like Juanita Bynum, there is something about them that I just don't like.
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Posts: 59
3/23/16 1:43 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| clevelandgrad wrote: | Mr. OTCP,
For me Kenneth Copeland is like Juanita Bynum, there is something about them that I just don't like. |
Maybe they is a reason you just don't like em. A biblical/theological reason. |
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3/24/16 11:09 am
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