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 Romans 4:17: Kenny Copeland or French Arrington. Whom Shall We Believe? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
In the left corner we got Kenneth Copeland (fake doctorate, Strong’s Concordance Greek user) an all the woffies. To them, Romans 4:17 means that every Christian has the right to call them things that aint as though they are. In other words, this verse gives creative ability to every believer through the power of the tongue.
In the right corner we got French Arrington, PhD, lifelong Greek scholar, who in his book “The Greatest Letter Ever Written: A Study of the Book of Romans” writes: “The God that Abraham believed is the God who makes alive the dead and calls into existence those things that do not exist. God is both Creator and Life-giver. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
11/18/15 9:22 pm
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bradfreeman |
You haven't presented 2 conflicting positions. Does Arrington disagree with Copeland's view of the passage? If so, present his quote.
Rom. 4:16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, “A father of many nations have I made you”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.
One thing is certain, God lives in the believer and is manifesting the fruit of His very presence inside us - not a junior version of His life, but His quality of life, His quality of love.
As believers, we choose to believe and then speak. We hear with faith what God is saying and then we "homologeo" (confess with our mouths) or agree with God. We receive and are filled His Spirit (His Word - Jn. 6:63) by hearing with faith (Gal. 3:2) and then we speak the Word of God with boldness.
We don't just say what we want. But if we hear God calling something into being and believe Him, we say what He says.
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Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/19/15 7:30 am
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sheepdogandy |
Well, I'm a French Arrington fan.
So there you go. 
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
11/19/15 8:37 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bradfreeman wrote: | | You haven't presented 2 conflicting positions. Does Arrington disagree with Copeland's view of the passage? If so, present his quote. |
No need to present a quote, Brad, Arrington defined quite well his position on Romans 4:17. He would not agree with Copeland's position because the passage in question has absolutely nothing to do with anything except the creative capacity of God--something no other created entity enjoys. You know this as well as I. |
Acts-pert Poster
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11/19/15 11:05 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
After researching over 30 evangelical commentaries, an yes, a few written by Pentecostal writers, not a one of em interpreted Romans 4:17 in any other way as specifically referencin God's creative power. Not a one of em even hinted that this somehow gives believers who have the right amount of faith the power to go around speakin stuff into existence.
Such nonsense comes from Copeland an the woffies, an New Agers like Rhonda Byrne in her book "The Secret." |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
11/19/15 10:07 pm
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bradfreeman |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | After researching over 30 evangelical commentaries, an yes, a few written by Pentecostal writers, not a one of em interpreted Romans 4:17 in any other way as specifically referencin God's creative power. Not a one of em even hinted that this somehow gives believers who have the right amount of faith the power to go around speakin stuff into existence.
Such nonsense comes from Copeland an the woffies, an New Agers like Rhonda Byrne in her book "The Secret." |
The creative power we possess is the presence of Creator inside us. It's the grace of God working in us. The Spirit of God flowing out in living water. He is the Light shining out of our darkness. He is the treasure in these earthen vessels. The excellency of the power is of Him, not of us.
Apart from Him, we can do nothing. I don't know anyone who says we can.
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
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My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/20/15 6:02 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
The creative power we possess is the presence of Creator inside us. It's the grace of God working in us. The Spirit of God flowing out in living water. He is the Light shining out of our darkness. He is the treasure in these earthen vessels. The excellency of the power is of Him, not of us.
Apart from Him, we can do nothing. I don't know anyone who says we can. |
Then you don't fully understand hyper-wof teaching. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
11/20/15 10:23 am
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bradfreeman |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | bradfreeman wrote: |
The creative power we possess is the presence of Creator inside us. It's the grace of God working in us. The Spirit of God flowing out in living water. He is the Light shining out of our darkness. He is the treasure in these earthen vessels. The excellency of the power is of Him, not of us.
Apart from Him, we can do nothing. I don't know anyone who says we can. |
Then you don't fully understand hyper-wof teaching. |
Ahhhh...so now there's hyper-wof teaching! 
I, frankly, don't care. Let's preach Jesus...not Kenny or Frenchy.
[/i]
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I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!
My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/ |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
11/20/15 12:53 pm
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| Key words here |
JLarry |
Ro. 4:17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”[a]) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; NKJV
I see some key words here, "GOD who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did".
GOD is the one who is calling life to the dead, not Abraham.
Copland, Dr. JLarry, Oral, T.L., not even the OTCP is not calling life to the dead.
Now do I believe in the power of words. Absolutely!
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No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
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11/20/15 1:04 pm
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| Re: Key words here |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| JLarry wrote: | Ro. 4:17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”[a]) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; NKJV
I see some key words here, "GOD who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did".
GOD is the one who is calling life to the dead, not Abraham.
Copland, Dr. JLarry, Oral, T.L., not even the OTCP is not calling life to the dead.
Now do I believe in the power of words. Absolutely! |
My gootness Dr Larry, son, you done interpreted this verse to perfection. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15565
11/20/15 1:51 pm
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| With a view of God's foreknowledge, |
Mark Ledbetter |
couldn't God actually be speaking the future in the now?
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Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2109
11/20/15 7:24 pm
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revuriah |
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diakoneo |
| revuriah wrote: | | Does anybody have an extra copy of Dr. Arrington's book on Romans? I'm in a pretty deep study right now using John Stott's book, The Message of Romans, on loan from the library. It's pretty good, but I'd love to read up on one of our own tribe. |
amazon 9.99 + freight
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=romans+arrington
Check that is kindle version.
The hard cover is 25.00 |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
11/21/15 9:14 am
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