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Why was there mercy for Nineveh but none for Sodom? |
Bro Bob |
I was reading the bakery thread and have stayed out of it because Nick and Tom are covering things pretty well, my input wouldn't help.
But it brought to mind two stories of judgment for absolute wickedness, Nineveh and Sodom / Gomorrah.
Haven't re-read it lately, but if memory serves, God shows up on the plains of Mamre and with two assistants, and visits and dines with Abraham. Afterwards he asks the two assistants if they think He ought to get to the point about why He has come. They don't answer, they just get up and leave. And God begins to journey and explains: The cry against Sodom is so great, I have come to see for myself if it is as bad as what I am hearing.
What? You have come to see for yourself? You know everything. Nothing is going on at Sodom that you are unaware of. And of course, that is true. But He also knew that Abraham was aware of what was going on over there. And he also knew that Lot lived there. And he also knew that Abraham would negotiate on behalf of Lot.
Enough background. My question is, where was the Jonah to give Sodom a final warning? Was there one that I am forgetting?
If not, then why does Nineveh get special treatment, and there is no mercy for Sodom?
I think I already know the answer to this question I offer. I think the answer lies in at least three specific truths found in Romans 1 (edit: I poorly worded that last sentence, it would have been better to have said "a truth stated three times in Romans 1"
Curious about what the rest of you think.
Last edited by Bro Bob on 2/21/14 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3944 2/21/14 12:55 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
GREAT question, Bro Bob. My understanding is that there is a point in wickedness/rebellion/sin, after which the end of God's patience is reached, and beyond which He stops offering mercy, and then metes out only judgement, indignation and wrath upon willful rebels against His law, whether individuals, cities, or nations. I also believe, based on what we see in Scripture, that God does all he wisely can to bring people to repentance, but there comes a point at which He hardens their hearts and then uses them as vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, just as He did with Pharaoh of old. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 2/21/14 1:02 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
I believe your reading of the text is correct, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume there was no warning or warnings based on the silence of the text.
I'm inferring from your somewhat unclear final statement, so please forgive me and correct me if I am misrepresenting what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were much worse than the sins of the tortuous, murderous, Assyrians and that is why the Ninevites received a warning and Sodom and Gomorrah did not. Is that a correct guess as to what you are alluding to? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 2/21/14 1:48 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
God doesn't have to send prophets or angels to warn of judgment to come and to call sinners to repentance. However, in mercy and lovingkindness He often does. Romans 1 indicates that those who willfully sin against God KNOW they are worthy of death for their actions, but they steadfastly refuse to obey the knowledge of God which they do have. God lets them go their way, eventually giving them over to a reprobate/depraved mind. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 2/21/14 2:27 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
Quiet Wyatt wrote: | God doesn't have to send prophets or angels to warn of judgment to come and to call sinners to repentance. However, in mercy and lovingkindness He often does. Romans 1 indicates that those who willfully sin against God KNOW they are worthy of death for their actions, but they steadfastly refuse to obey the knowledge of God which they do have. |
I agree with this statement completely.
Quote: | God lets them go their way, eventually giving them over to a reprobate/depraved mind. |
I agree with this as well, but my challenge in relation to this thread is (what I perceived to be) the suggestion that Sodom and Gomorrah went without warning because of homosexuality, while Ninevah received a warning because their sins were not of that nature. I could be wrong in my perception of Bro Bob's original post, and I look forward to correction if so.
The Assyrians executed people, among other ways, by flaying the skin off of their backs and impaling them through their anuses -- carefully, though, so their organs would be gently pushed aside rather than punctured, so they could live on the stake for a few days before dying. As horrible as that is, it is not even close to the worst Assyrian execution I can think of.
Does that not sound like the work of a reprobate and depraved mind? Is that not at least as bad as, if not profoundly worse, than the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 2/21/14 2:49 pm
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Bro Bob |
I didn't really mean this to be a riddle. But in answer to your post, Dave, let me just pose what is to me an obvious question: If God had sent a Jonah to Sodom, would Sodom have repented the way Nineveh did? (In your opinion, of course.)
I'll go ahead and state my answer to this one. No. Sodom would not have repented. Sodom would have devoured a Jonah. And in answer to your question, it is not so much that Sodom's sin was "worse", it was complete. Their sin was not merely the sin they are renowned for to this day, (we still refer to it as sodomy) it was the result of the ultimate sin, which they had committed long before.
It is my assertion that this has not changed from that time until this very day. Not one thing about it has changed. It is my absolute conviction that atheism is the only hope for the sodomite. How sad is that? |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3944 2/21/14 2:50 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
Bro Bob wrote: | I'll go ahead and state my answer to this one. No. Sodom would not have repented. Sodom would have devoured a Jonah. And in answer to your question, it is not so much that Sodom's sin was "worse", it was complete. Their sin was not merely the sin they are renowned for to this day, (we still refer to it as sodomy) it was the result of the ultimate sin, which they had committed long before. |
I appreciate your clarification. In the context of their sin being different because it was "complete" I absolutely agree with you. Would you say it is fair, even though scripture is silent on the issue, to suggest they may have received a multitude of warnings before that completion was reached?
Quote: | It is my absolute conviction that atheism is the only hope for the sodomite. How sad is that? |
Could you elaborate on this? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 2/21/14 2:52 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I don't think God is obligated to always send a warning and to offer mercy upon repentance, though He often does. They already know they are under the righteous judgement of God except they repent.
As to which group was worse, Sodom or Nineveh, I'm confident that the Judge of all the earth always does what is right, and that He seeks to show mercy where possible. He is so patient and longsuffering. When He decides a group or person is past hope, they certainly are. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 2/21/14 2:56 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I have known folks who believed homosexual sin was unpardonable, or at least was indicative of a heart so hardened that such a one couldn't repent. I don't know if Bob believes that, but 1 Cor 6:9-11 indicates otherwise. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 2/21/14 3:05 pm
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Re: Nineveh or Sodom? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
Bro Bob wrote: | why does Nineveh get special treatment, and there is no mercy for Sodom? |
The sodomites were warned, but not in the same way as Nineveh.
1. Gen 18:20 says that the "outcry against Sodom an Gomorrah was so great." Somebody was cryin out an grievin over their sin.
2. Gen 18:23-33, Abraham intercedes for the sodomites. Aint intercession a act of mercy on the part of the one interceding, what ultimately comes from God?
3. Gen 19:11, the men was struck with blindness. is this not a act of judgment for the purpose a repentance. All judgment cept the final judgment is geared toward repentance, not just for God to git the folk. |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 2/21/14 3:27 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Quiet Wyatt wrote: | I have known folks who believed homosexual sin was unpardonable, or at least was indicative of a heart so hardened that such a one couldn't repent. I don't know if Bob believes that, but 1 Cor 6:9-11 indicates otherwise. |
Ever wondered when ya preached on at "an such was some a you" verse how many folk was lookin round in the church wonderin "was he gay, was she a lesbian?" |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 2/21/14 3:30 pm
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Is it possible |
Ernie Long |
that the church in America is or should be the Jonah of today? But, like Jonah we are running from our responsibility to preach the truth to America? |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1050 2/21/14 3:31 pm
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Bro Bob |
Quote: | Would you say it is fair, even though scripture is silent on the issue, to suggest they may have received a multitude of warnings before that completion was reached?
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The only thing we really know is that Sodom was known for its wickedness (Gen 13:13) even before they lost a battle to some invaders who carried them and their spoil away. Abraham then gathers up his men and goes after them and recovers all of it. (The whole tithe to Melchizedek thing comes up and we get distracted.) The king of Sodom tells Abraham to keep the spoils, just return to him the people, and Abraham basically says he doesn't want any of their filthy money.
So yes, Sodom knew right from wrong. They knew Abraham was righteous before God. And they did not consider repenting of the evil they were well known for before any of that, even though they had already paid a price for it.
Were they warned? They didn't care.
..........................
Quote: | Quote:
Quote: | BB> It is my absolute conviction that atheism is the only hope for the sodomite. How sad is that? |
Dave> Could you elaborate on this? |
Yeah. I knew it didn't read like it sounded in my head when I typed it.
The Sodomite, then, the Sodomite today, has not changed. They know God. They can by mere observance see clearly his work, his design, his nature. Yet they reject him outright. They rail and rant against him. They hate him and they hate anyone who doesn't hate him.
Their only hope is that Bill Nye is right. There really is no God. All these rules are man made and based on superstition. If there IS a God, and if scripture reveals him, then they know their eternal fate, and STILL they do what they do and have pleasure in others who do it.
Romans 1: 18-20 ... They know God, know his ordinances, they reject him anyway, and are without excuse.
Quote: | 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. |
Quote: | 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
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That's 1.
Quote: | 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. |
That's 2.
Quote: | 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. |
That's 3.
Quote: | 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. |
The death of Christ on the cross was quite brutal, yet he prayed that the Father would not hold it against them. He was not giving them over.
But we are told three times that on this, God gives them over. No pleading. No warning. No Jonah.
Can anyone reading this think of any other sin or situation where God simply gives up? I can't.
.........................
So, I would agree wholeheartedly with Bro Sterbens that this is the next and possibly the final big thing the church will be forced to face. We know the method that will be used against us. We know what some will say about loving the sinner and hating the sin. We know that many will say God is not fair. We know that some will say no sin is different than any other. Gonna really tick off some soft Christians here, but they are copying Lot's solution when he offered those wicked men his virgin daughters to do with as they pleased. God did not spare Lot for Lot's sake!
But we also know exactly what the mind of God is on this subject.
We just have to decide if we are with Him or against Him.
(edit in response to posts while I was typing: Homosexuality is as pardonable as any sin. It just requires the same thing other sins require, repentance. Any individual can crucify his flesh and be saved. As a group, they will not. Not then. Not now. Not when fire is falling from the sky. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3944 2/21/14 3:31 pm
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Re: Nineveh or Sodom? |
Link |
Bro Bob wrote: | I was reading the bakery thread and have stayed out of it because Nick and Tom are covering things pretty well, my input wouldn't help.
But it brought to mind two stories of judgment for absolute wickedness, Nineveh and Sodom / Gomorrah.
Haven't re-read it lately, but if memory serves, God shows up on the plains of Mamre and with two assistants, and visits and dines with Abraham. Afterwards he asks the two assistants if they think He ought to get to the point about why He has come. They don't answer, they just get up and leave. And God begins to journey and explains: The cry against Sodom is so great, I have come to see for myself if it is as bad as what I am hearing.
What? You have come to see for yourself? You know everything. Nothing is going on at Sodom that you are unaware of. And of course, that is true. But He also knew that Abraham was aware of what was going on over there. And he also knew that Lot lived there. And he also knew that Abraham would negotiate on behalf of Lot.
Enough background. My question is, where was the Jonah to give Sodom a final warning? Was there one that I am forgetting?
If not, then why does Nineveh get special treatment, and there is no mercy for Sodom?
I think I already know the answer to this question I offer. I think the answer lies in at least three specific truths found in Romans 1 (edit: I poorly worded that last sentence, it would have been better to have said "a truth stated three times in Romans 1"
Curious about what the rest of you think. |
Sodom deserved to die. God owed them nothing. He could justly wipe them out.
Nineveh deserved to die. He sent a prophet to warn them that they might repent. That's an example of grace. He showed them grace, something they did not deserve. He also showed them mercy.
No one goes to Hell for not hearing the Gospel. Those who go to Hell go to Hell for sinning against god. _________________ Link |
Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 2/21/14 8:44 pm
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Nick Park |
We certainly can't go constructing a 'heirarchy of wickedness' based on the perceived punishment that God handed out to people, or cities in the Old Testament. If so, then we might conclude that striking a rock with a stick (got Moses barred from entering the Promised Land - no second chance) is more serious a sin than adultery and murder. (David got forgiven).
I find it interesting that no-one in this thread has mentioned the words of Jesus where he compared Sodom favorably with the towns of Israel (Luke 10:12). In fact, Jesus does answer, in a sense, Bro Bob's question:
Quote: | Let me just pose what is to me an obvious question: If God had sent a Jonah to Sodom, would Sodom have repented the way Nineveh did? (In your opinion, of course.)
I'll go ahead and state my answer to this one. No. Sodom would not have repented. Sodom would have devoured a Jonah. And in answer to your question, it is not so much that Sodom's sin was "worse", it was complete. Their sin was not merely the sin they are renowned for to this day, (we still refer to it as sodomy) it was the result of the ultimate sin, which they had committed long before. |
First off, Jesus did very much compare His own life, ministry, death and resurrection to that of Jonah (Matthew 12:38-42).
In the previous Chapter Jesus also made the startling comment that Sodom would have repented if it had seen the miracles that Capernaum saw.
Quote: | And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. (Matthew 11:23) |
So I think Jesus is saying very clearly that Sodom's sin was not 'complete' in the sense that were beyond the ability to repent. If they had witnessed a few blind men seeing or lepers healed then they would have repented and Sodom would still have been standing 2000 years later.
Which leads us back to the original question. Why do some people appear to given many more chances to repent than others? And why do God's judgments not always seem equitable? Why does the divine punishment not always seem to fit the crime? Why did Nineveh get a Jonah when Sodom got a Lot? Why did Sodom get rained with fire and brimstone when the cities of Israel deserved worse yet only had the dust shaken off the disciples' feet?
The answer, I suspect is twofold.
1. God's ultimate and eternal justice is what really matters, not so much the temporal things we see happening. Just because people suffer a very visible punishment, it does not follow that they are especially wicked (Luke 13:1-5). It appears that there will somehow be degrees of punishment in Eternity - all in hell will not suffer alike or to the same degree (Matthew 11:22). God is absolutely just. No-one will receive an undeserved or a disproportionate penalty in Eternity.
2. While God is just, he is not necessarily 'fair' (in the childish sense that we expect that everyone should be given precisely the same mathematical chance of getting saved). Bro Bob has already alluded to Romans Chapter 1. The teaching there is that all of us deserve judgment. We are all without excuse.
If absolutely nobody was ever given an opportunity to hear the Gospel or to repent then God would still be absolutely just. None of us could complain that we didn't receive what we deserved. We sinned, and the wages of sin is death.
However, God has, through Jesus, extended this amazing thing called 'Grace' to us. It isn't earned. It isn't deserved. And it certainly isn't, in the sense of schoolyard games, 'fair' either. He freely offers us the opportunity to get a thoroughly undeserved backstage pass into Life - and some of us seem to get many more opportunities than others.
Jesus told a parable about workers who received the same wages for vastly different amounts of work (Matthew 20:1-16). It sounds 'unfair' - but no-one had any legitimate grounds for complaint. No-one got less than what they deserved - even though some got a gracious gift of much more than they deserved.
So, according to the New Testament, all get a revelation from God. That revelation is sufficient to leave us with no excuse that we've been hard done by. To some that revelation is the created order that speaks of God's nature. To others that revelation is a Pentecostal preacher. To others God appears in visions and dreams of outstanding clarity.
Our job is to preach the Gospel as effectively and clearly as we can - whether God sends us to Sodom, Nineveh or Dublin. _________________ Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1021 2/22/14 4:40 am
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Bro Bob |
Thank you, Bro Park, for your thoughts and input. I suspect I would be received in Dublin about like any other American of limited knowledge and remote connection.
You bring up a great observation, one that requires some meditation and possible correction to my understanding. Christ certainly did make those references to Sodom. The one regarding Capernaum I had noted as odd, but never really examined. It sounds like Jesus is saying, "If my Father were fair about it, Sodom would still be standing and Capernaum would have burning rocks raining down on it."
But at the very beginning of giving this another think, I still have a question for you, Bro Park, as to your opinion on that. Was Jesus saying that Sodom would have repented in the way that Nineveh did if they had been sent a man who worked miracles among them, or was he saying there would have been the few (if there be 5 righteous I will spare the whole city) that Abraham had negotiated for?
I am trying very hard to not make this a contest of tit-for-tat. I am sincere in my desire to hear your thoughts, they have already enlightened me, which I value greatly.
I realize I am not asking a question that is fully knowable, at least I don't fully know it. But if the correct answer is that enough of them would have believed to spare the place, then my original assertion seems to stand, that neither they nor their current day copies would repent as a group. (Repentance as a group is a rare thing. Thank God it is only required individually.)
But if the correct answer is that they would have repented en-mass as Nineveh did, then how much more odd it would seem that any God would not send them their Jonah.
...........
I don't know how I am being received on this. I fear that I sound like I am glad they will get theirs. Ironically, that was true of Jonah. No and a thousand times no. There are people I love dearly who are having to deal with this. I would love nothing more than to find a hope for them, but aside from repentance I cannot.
I noted the 3 times we are told that God has given them over to their depravity. I think there is something significant in that. I can't dismiss it. I can't find any other condition of man where this is so plainly stated.
The first conversation from one prisoner to another often begins, "What you in for?" I imagine hell. One prisoner to another. "What you in for?" They won't be saying, "I kissed a girl and I liked it." They will be saying, "I knew God and I rejected Him. So God gave up on me."
..........
The day is coming and now is, where preaching the gospel, or even reading the New Testament aloud will be hate speech in America. The words I have typed in this thread are already a hate crime to many, and those numbers are growing daily. I am a person with a mental disorder known as homophobia: Irrational fear of loving same sex unions. There is no such word as heterophobia. (Even now my spell checker is fine with the 1st word and has a red squiggly line under the 2nd.)
In America, we have judged God and found him less moral than we are. Obama didn't do that. The democrats didn't do that. We did that. We have turned.
Jonah or not, America will be Sodom, not Nineveh. Capernaum is our sister.
...........
Isaiah 21 (KJV)
21 The burden of the desert of the sea. As whirlwinds in the south pass through; so it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land.
2 A grievous vision is declared unto me; the treacherous dealer dealeth treacherously, and the spoiler spoileth. Go up, O Elam: besiege, O Media; all the sighing thereof have I made to cease.
3 Therefore are my loins filled with pain: pangs have taken hold upon me, as the pangs of a woman that travaileth: I was bowed down at the hearing of it; I was dismayed at the seeing of it.
4 My heart panted, fearfulness affrighted me: the night of my pleasure hath he turned into fear unto me.
5 Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, and anoint the shield.
6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.
7 And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:
8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:
9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.
10 O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3944 2/22/14 9:42 am
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Consider Peter's reference to Lot as well |
Poimen |
While it seems hardly conclusive, and even a bit speculative, Sodom did have Lot.
The reference to him in 2 Peter 2 -- contrasting false prophets with God's judgments, real prophets, and deliverance of the righteous -- would seem to suggest some connection with the idea that Lot's person and living, if not indeed his message, served as a warning for Sodom. After all, he did "sit in the gates" as a man of influence, was vexed with their wickedness, and was said to be a "just" man.
Was Lot God's messenger to Sodom? I think it's probable.
Anyhow, just a few thoughts to throw into the mix. _________________ Poimen
Bro. Christopher
Singing: "Let us then be true and faithful -- trusting, serving, everyday. Just one glimpse of Him in glory will the toils of life repay." |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5657 2/22/14 10:19 am
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Re: Is it possible |
Rafael D Martinez |
Ernie Long wrote: | that the church in America is or should be the Jonah of today? But, like Jonah we are running from our responsibility to preach the truth to America? |
Is it possible??
Is water wet?
The church has been largely abrogate from its responsibility for this going on several decades now. I'm no dispensationalist but there's a good reason for the dispensationalism of today to assume we are in a Laodecian "church age" .. because we truly have seen the church's overall approach sink to a level of apostacy, laxity and obscenity that is disgusting to behold.
What we buy as "gospel truth" these days is nothing less than fullscale compromise with what our mission is to be, that of salt that savors, light that dispels darkness, and voices that sound through every woe that falls. _________________ www.spiritwatch.org
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987 |
Acts-dicted Posts: 7766 2/24/14 3:27 am
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Nick Park |
Bro Bob wrote: | Thank you, Bro Park, for your thoughts and input. I suspect I would be received in Dublin about like any other American of limited knowledge and remote connection.
You bring up a great observation, one that requires some meditation and possible correction to my understanding. Christ certainly did make those references to Sodom. The one regarding Capernaum I had noted as odd, but never really examined. It sounds like Jesus is saying, "If my Father were fair about it, Sodom would still be standing and Capernaum would have burning rocks raining down on it."
But at the very beginning of giving this another think, I still have a question for you, Bro Park, as to your opinion on that. Was Jesus saying that Sodom would have repented in the way that Nineveh did if they had been sent a man who worked miracles among them, or was he saying there would have been the few (if there be 5 righteous I will spare the whole city) that Abraham had negotiated for?
I am trying very hard to not make this a contest of tit-for-tat. I am sincere in my desire to hear your thoughts, they have already enlightened me, which I value greatly.
I realize I am not asking a question that is fully knowable, at least I don't fully know it. But if the correct answer is that enough of them would have believed to spare the place, then my original assertion seems to stand, that neither they nor their current day copies would repent as a group. (Repentance as a group is a rare thing. Thank God it is only required individually.)
But if the correct answer is that they would have repented en-mass as Nineveh did, then how much more odd it would seem that any God would not send them their Jonah.
...........
I don't know how I am being received on this. I fear that I sound like I am glad they will get theirs. Ironically, that was true of Jonah. No and a thousand times no. There are people I love dearly who are having to deal with this. I would love nothing more than to find a hope for them, but aside from repentance I cannot.
I noted the 3 times we are told that God has given them over to their depravity. I think there is something significant in that. I can't dismiss it. I can't find any other condition of man where this is so plainly stated.
The first conversation from one prisoner to another often begins, "What you in for?" I imagine hell. One prisoner to another. "What you in for?" They won't be saying, "I kissed a girl and I liked it." They will be saying, "I knew God and I rejected Him. So God gave up on me."
..........
The day is coming and now is, where preaching the gospel, or even reading the New Testament aloud will be hate speech in America. The words I have typed in this thread are already a hate crime to many, and those numbers are growing daily. I am a person with a mental disorder known as homophobia: Irrational fear of loving same sex unions. There is no such word as heterophobia. (Even now my spell checker is fine with the 1st word and has a red squiggly line under the 2nd.)
In America, we have judged God and found him less moral than we are. Obama didn't do that. The democrats didn't do that. We did that. We have turned.
Jonah or not, America will be Sodom, not Nineveh. Capernaum is our sister.
...........
Isaiah 21 (KJV)
21 The burden of the desert of the sea. As whirlwinds in the south pass through; so it cometh from the desert, from a terrible land.
2 A grievous vision is declared unto me; the treacherous dealer dealeth treacherously, and the spoiler spoileth. Go up, O Elam: besiege, O Media; all the sighing thereof have I made to cease.
3 Therefore are my loins filled with pain: pangs have taken hold upon me, as the pangs of a woman that travaileth: I was bowed down at the hearing of it; I was dismayed at the seeing of it.
4 My heart panted, fearfulness affrighted me: the night of my pleasure hath he turned into fear unto me.
5 Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, and anoint the shield.
6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.
7 And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:
8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:
9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.
10 O my threshing, and the corn of my floor: that which I have heard of the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, have I declared unto you. |
Bro Bob, there is a warm welcome in Dublin, both in general and from the Church of God, anytime you decide to visit. Irish people have many links with the US and American visitors are always embraced (just make sure you leave your guns at home and bring your dollars - LOL).
For me, the comparison between Sodom and Capernaum would put the spotlight on Capernaum's response to Jesus (or lack of response). Capernaum probably could muster 5 righteous people (Peter, Andrew, James, John and the Roman Centurion who had built a synagogue for the Jews (Luke 7:1-5). Indeed, there were common people in Capernaum who heard Jesus gladly. So the most straightforward reading of Jesus' words would be that if Sodom had witnessed the works done in Capernaum then there would have been a significant response of repentance and faith.
More worryingly for today's generation, the issue is not just the extent of sin but also the rejection of the Gospel. Your nation (and mine) has a history where the truth of God has been clearly set forth and attested with signs and wonders. Therefore we are more deserving of judgment than other parts of the world which are depraved, but have never been exposed to the light that we have. _________________ Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1021 2/24/14 6:04 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
God is just. The judge of all the earth will do right. Nineveh received no more mercy than Sodom. |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 2/28/14 1:18 am
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