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Pastor Appointment? |
Change Agent |
We know that all pastors must be appointed by the AB of each state. In my area the appointment method is changing. In the past the AB has sent someone without any process by the church needing a pastor. Now it seems that churches are getting to listen to candidates and then to vote in the selection process.
I have noticed that pastors seeking new churches as part of that process do not as a whole seem very prepared for their sermons and introductions to the churches. It would be a good thing for these candidates to take some training and learn some of the things to say and not to say to a congregation.
Also the AB or the AB representative might want to at least imply that the candidate could be a man or woman when they stand up and say "the right man for the job". We in the COG still think men even though women can be ordained.
My take on the pastor selection process is that it stinks regardless of the method. In listening and looking at the background of the candidates I see no thought of how they will fit that church. I don't think most churches really know who they need, and I don't think much consideration and prayer is given in the AB office when they send the candidates to the church.
There needs to be a better way than politics or don't care to get a pastor to a church. Other denominations are able to do a much better job of fitting pastors to a church. There needs to be a file on each church that contains appropriate information about that church and a file on each pastor with all of the appropriate information. As long as the AB is being pushed to get pastors for numerous churches and as long as numerous pastors are trying to get a move the AB office is going to be a mad house.
In most cases the AB is doing the best he can under the circumstances. The process needs to be tweaked.
What is your opinion of the current selection process? Do you prefer church involvement? Do you like political appointments? Do you think it could use some help? |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1449 1/6/14 5:51 pm
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Cojak |
I am not sure that other denominations have a better process. I have close friends who are Methodist, and are not always pleased because the pastor is not always a good fit either.
We in the pew are not real happy with the pastoral selection process either, but I really don't know a much better process without it being in the hands of of the congregation more. Still I smile at the 'try outs', One of my favorite people from years gone by, Ray Collins, said of a camp meeting sermon, "It is supposed to be tried and true, Mine is always slicker than a rats tail."
I assume someone trying out will use one of their best sermons, but it gives no indications of how they interact with a flock.
It has always been a hit and miss proposition, but you will never get the politics out of the equation as long as we are a central government. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 1/6/14 7:14 pm
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I think pastors should be allowed to send resumes... |
roughridercog |
to an open church.
The church could examine the resumes, talk with the, bring them into preach, and then narrow their choice to two or three.
At that time, bring in the AB and let the vote be taken. _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 1/6/14 7:19 pm
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revuriah |
When I went to Dover, I was simply appointed. No questions, as there were only a few people in the church. But when I came to South Aurora, the AB brought me in on a Monday, showed me around the area, toured the ground, saw the parsonage, and finally, I had an opportunity to meet in the people of the church, and pour my heart out to them.
I liked that better than simply coming and preaching. They got to hear my heart and interact with me. And they have supported us and our vision ever since. _________________ The World As I See It
http://worldjeffreysees.blogspot.com/
Revuriah's Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeff-Richard/1226257444
Jeffrey David Richard's Myspace Music
www.myspace.com/547856946 |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3682 1/6/14 7:31 pm
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Re: I think pastors should be allowed to send resumes... |
Cojak |
roughridercog wrote: | to an open church.
The church could examine the resumes, talk with the, bring them into preach, and then narrow their choice to two or three.
At that time, bring in the AB and let the vote be taken. |
This sounds like a very good approach, I would like to see it. I am sure the general church (in the pew & Most pastors) would readily approve of this procedure. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 1/6/14 7:38 pm
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Re: I think pastors should be allowed to send resumes... |
roughridercog |
Cojak wrote: | roughridercog wrote: | to an open church.
The church could examine the resumes, talk with the, bring them into preach, and then narrow their choice to two or three.
At that time, bring in the AB and let the vote be taken. |
This sounds like a very good approach, I would like to see it. I am sure the general church (in the pew & Most pastors) would readily approve of this procedure. |
It would lead to the people taking more ownership in the working of their church. _________________ Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod Posts: 25305 1/6/14 8:35 pm
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Re: I think pastors should be allowed to send resumes... |
Cojak |
roughridercog wrote: | Cojak wrote: | roughridercog wrote: | to an open church.
The church could examine the resumes, talk with the, bring them into preach, and then narrow their choice to two or three.
At that time, bring in the AB and let the vote be taken. |
This sounds like a very good approach, I would like to see it. I am sure the general church (in the pew & Most pastors) would readily approve of this procedure. |
It would lead to the people taking more ownership in the working of their church. |
That is not a bad thing, but I do think that a change is scary to many who are afraid to loosen the reins, afraid of a runaway team, but thinking people could see it as a boon instead of a bust. It just might be the inspiration especially to the smaller congregations, that we have needed for a long time. _________________ Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 1/6/14 8:55 pm
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Redneck |
Personally I think the AB should stay out of the process, unless contacted by the church for candidates. The GOB network within the COG is very strong and I think a big problem.
While there are always folks willing to play the political games needed for posturing, I know younger ministers are growing weary of the garbage that goes on behind the scenes in order to minister. I have two in my area that I'm close to that have given up ministering altogether after many years of ministry and are working in the secular realm. One of them left the Glorious COG altogether. While I'm not foolish enough to think the COG will die off and go away, it does make me wonder, should the Lord tarry, what will happen to this great organization as the old guard dies off and no one is left to take the mantle because the ones they trained to take their place take their toys and go home.
Roughrider. I proposed this very thing at a mid-size church I attended for many years here in Alabama. Our board narrowed it down to 3 candidates and we got to have a Q & A session but no preaching. Was told it would be too much trouble and a bunch of hooey about if their current congregation found out that it could cause hard feelings, yada, yada, yada. I stand by my opening statement in this rant. I love the idea of hearing a minister preach on a try before you buy basis. _________________ That haircut of yorn may be citified, but your heart was shaped in a bowl.....................Briscoe Darling |
Acts-celerater Posts: 664 1/6/14 9:11 pm
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John Stevenson |
I think any open position should be advertised on the COG's website & any eligible minister should be able to apply. _________________ www.bwcuhrichsville.org |
Acts-celerater Posts: 671 1/6/14 9:26 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Having many family and friends in the A/G (which does try-outs), and having formerly been in the A/G myself, in my opinion the try-out does little to help produce a better "fit" for a congregation. Having a preacher try out does little, if anything, to really inform a congregation as to his ability to pastor, not to mention the fact that he will probably be preaching his best sermon that he has preached many times before, with his best possible delivery. You will generally not get a good idea of how well the preacher will serve as a pastor by hearing him preach once or twice on a try-out weekend.
And then there are practical theological issues, such as the questions, "Where in the New Testament do we find congregations voting on their shepherd?" and, "On what New Testament basis does a congregation or board have authority over a pastor to hire and fire him?" Which, even if it may not be precisely how it works in the CoG system even with try-outs, the fact remains that a church that thinks they voted in their pastor will also feel strongly that they have a right to vote OUT their pastor, regardless of moral failure or any other scripturally disqualifying issue in his life and ministry.
I realize the appointment process is not perfect, either, and I'm not saying the try-out thing never works at all. I'm just saying it ain't all it's cracked up to be. It's certainly no magical thing that makes for a perfect fit between pastor and congregation. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 1/6/14 9:39 pm
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Pastor Appointment? |
Change Agent |
The GOB network mentioned by Redneck expects the process to work for them as it has worked for many years. It does not allow for young and well equipped men and women to have a chance for an appointment.
The process of sending a pastor to a church to try out one at a time is a very slow process. The church loses momentum. People get restless because decisions cannot be made until the new pastor is in place. Has an AB ever sent an interim pastor when the process is long?
You wonder why in the world was a pastor that has been maintaining a congregation of 50-60 for 8-10 years sent to a church that has need of a pastor that has leadership experience of a congregation of 150-200? In the corporate world this would be stupidity. In the COG GOB network it's the norm.
One of the posters mentioned the resume process where the church would review resumes and then contact the AB for those men or women to be sent to try out. This would be a much faster process but it would make the GOB network mad because it takes the political aspect out of the equation.
Will the GOB network please get out of our church. We no longer have need of you.
Come on now lets tell it like it is. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1449 1/6/14 10:31 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I also am definitely not in favor of the 'good ol' boy network,' nor am I in favor of overseers appointing unqualified men to pastorates. It is inaccurate to characterize all CoG pastors as if they all were appointed because of the good ol' boy network. A godly overseer will prayerfully consider any appointments he makes. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 1/6/14 10:41 pm
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Redneck |
Quiet Wyatt....I can see where the system is not fool proof, and I totally agree with the fact that the pastor trying out will bring in his finest material and put his best foot forward. Kind of like all of us in the secular world at a job interview. My biggest beef is how corrupt the current system is. Kind of like the way our government works. People are making decisions for you and I that do not have our best interest in mind. It is all about perpetuating their position. If you really want to get into conspiracy theories, I would not be surprised one bit if the elections are totally rigged and people are placed in office by people of power that want them there. That can go for our government and I certainly believe with our church structure. I'll shut-up because that is a totally different thread all on it's own. _________________ That haircut of yorn may be citified, but your heart was shaped in a bowl.....................Briscoe Darling |
Acts-celerater Posts: 664 1/6/14 10:43 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Redneck wrote: | Quiet Wyatt....I can see where the system is not fool proof, and I totally agree with the fact that the pastor trying out will bring in his finest material and put his best foot forward. Kind of like all of us in the secular world at a job interview. |
If one's approach to church leadership selection is just like the secular world, is it really any improvement at all? That goes for both centralized organizational structure as well as decentralized. Careerism is the very opposite of what Jesus lived, died, and rose again to bring about in this world. And careerism, politics, and egocentric leaders are just as common in congregationally governed churches as they are in episcopally governed churches. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12817 1/6/14 11:06 pm
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Pastor Appointment? |
Change Agent |
Do AB's with a minimum of staff really have the time to do a proper prayerful consideration of the pastorial needs of all the churches in their state? Do they just shut out all of the political pressure to be able to pray? We don't have bad AB's or bad pastors but I blame the system that needs changing. When a group (COG) gets in a habit (good or bad) its hard to get them to change. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1449 1/6/14 11:11 pm
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Re: Pastor Appointment? |
diakoneo |
Change Agent wrote: | Do AB's with a minimum of staff really have the time to do a proper prayerful consideration of the pastorial needs of all the churches in their state? Do they just shut out all of the political pressure to be able to pray? We don't have bad AB's or bad pastors but I blame the system that needs changing. When a group (COG) gets in a habit (good or bad) its hard to get them to change. |
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3382 1/6/14 11:16 pm
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Redneck |
Quote: | And careerism, politics, and egocentric leaders are just as common in congregationally governed churches as they are in episcopally governed churches. |
I agree. It certainly is not a perfect system either way you lean. And I also understand, be careful what you ask for. Our current POTUS is a prime example of that. I'm sure there will be arguments made for no matter what system is used. Bottom line, I know a lot of preachers that are burnt out or whatever, and view their current position as nothing more than a j o b. While you make a great point on this is the opposite of what Jesus wanted, but I'm sure there is a lot that he is displeased with when it comes to us and our human nature.
At a previous church I attended we were in the process of selecting a new pastor. The state AB was addressing the congregation about a prospective pastor and told an out right lie to the congregation about his availability and interest in the church. That is the main reason I stated at the very first of this thread why I think the system needs to be changed.
Would change be better? Who knows, but I don't think it could be much worse. _________________ That haircut of yorn may be citified, but your heart was shaped in a bowl.....................Briscoe Darling |
Acts-celerater Posts: 664 1/6/14 11:59 pm
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Change Agent |
Redneck wrote:
At a previous church I attended we were in the process of selecting a new pastor. The state AB was addressing the congregation about a prospective pastor and told an out right lie to the congregation about his availability and interest in the church. That is the main reason I stated at the very first of this thread why I think the system needs to be changed.
Would change be better? Who knows, but I don't think it could be much worse.[/quote]
The current political system that the AB is under will make a good man lie. I have also seen lies told during pastor selection processes. A politician makes promises to get elected. An AB makes promises to stay in favor, pay back debts owed. Its hard to say no when you are in a position like this. We need change that takes the AB out of the pressure cooker situation they are in now. Churches need to be able to get to those pastors that fit, & those pastors need to get to those churches that need them without interference from an antique GOB system. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1449 1/7/14 12:21 am
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JLarry |
I am happy that I do not have to go through the process again. At least I hope I will never have to go there again.
I have had both good and bad experiences. I suppose I will have to take the blame for some.
A couple churches I really thought I was a good fit for did not work out. One thought I was a good fit for them but I did not feel the same.
Even if you have the best AB, this can be a very frustrating process.
There is no perfect process. The little Country Baptist church about 2 miles from where I grew up changes pastors every 1-3 years. If the pastor does not dance to the step of the main family (who is related to an in-law of mine) he will not last long. This church has split a couple times that I know of. Now it is only a splintered church. But the family is happy to be in control. |
Acts Mod Posts: 3346 1/7/14 9:45 am
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What 30 years has taught me about pastoral appointments... |
OHIOBISHOPBILL |
Every pastor believes if he can just get his resume in front of the church or to some deciding board, they will want him "hands down" for pastor…
Every church believes if the overseer would advertise the opening, the list of ministers wanting to pastor their church would be overwhelming…
Neither is true…
Depending on the size of the church, most ABs work to find capable candidates and it is the responsibility of the AB to work with both the church and the available ministers. Churches feel that the AB works only to the advantage of the minister and the minister feel the AB favors the church…
There is no perfect system…
I do pray and enlist others to pray when we are filling a church in OneOhio…sometimes we miss it and I never promise a church that any appointment will work because you cannot predict chemistry between a pastor and the congregation. Resumes define history and biographical content but it cannot predict success. The unique DNA of pastors and churches is the elusive piece of the puzzle. ABs must learn their churches and pastors must understand their gifts…
A wise man once told me that if a man pastors 7 churches in his lifetime only 1 of those churches is likely to be a perfect fit…the rest will be an exercise in accommodation.
I think he's close to right. |
Friendly Face Posts: 101 1/7/14 2:08 pm
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