 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 |
Bro Bob |
Regarding the title of this thread.... what authority?
Never heard of the ECFA. But they sure write purty ...
http://www.ecfa.org/Content/Comment5 |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
8/12/11 8:48 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| I take the challenge |
Joshua Henson |
Tom,
I was one of the more passionate proponents of a Pentecostal distinctive (not elitism). Like Chris Moody, I get a little ticked off when my views get labeled as elite or thinking I'm better than "non-tongue talkers."
Your challenge was that if we want to talk about distinctives then we should want to talk about this.
Well, here we go...
First, I'm ignorant to "missing" section of the 2006 minutes, so I'm not going to speak to that.
Second, I'm ignorant to asking for 2000 financial disclosures, so I'm not going to speak to that. I was still in high school. I wasn't all that interested so, sorry.
Third, I do want to address the ECFA (?) I think that's right. What's the issue with us having an extra level of accountability? I don't get it. I would think that this would be a good thing. It doesn't seem to violate the minutes according to what you've posted, nor does it take away the authority or duties of the Secretary General.
THE REAL ISSUE I SEE HERE...
I've got a beef. I've had this beef since the Florida minister's meeting, so I'm getting it off my chest, because it is related to the Privacy Agreement.
The GA minutes provides every ordained bishop the right to VIEW the financial statements, NOT DISCUSS the financial statements. I have no problem with them requiring me to sign the privacy agreement and do not believe it violates the minutes. The disclosure is a matter of accountability not a matter of GOSSIP. My problem with this stems from the Florida Ministers meeting in 2010.
If I was a member of Actscelerate then, I would have made many people mad. There was all of this discussion about the LEGALITY of posting the Florida financial disclosure on Actscelerate. It was not a legal issue, it was a spiritual one.
First, Bishop Stephens took great care about how to he wanted the ministers to handle this information. He said that he was trying to provide financial disclosure, but he specifically asked for this information not be posted on "internet discussion forums". HE DID ALL OF THIS BEFORE HANDING THE INFO OUT.
Second, we had a great discussion about Florida's financial status. It was wonderful. Mostly every minister left the meeting really excited about the disclosure and felt that it was a wonderful step to building trust.
Third, by the time I got back to Perry (four hours), one (or more) of the Florida ministers had already posted the information. If I remember correctly, it was allowed to stay on the board because "legally" they could. THAT WAS BULL, IS BULL AND ALWAYS WILL BE BULL.
WE TALK ABOUT GOOD FAITH BUT IT GOES BOTH WAYS, AND THE POSTERS OF THE FLORIDA FINANCIAL INFORMATION VIOLATED THIS GOOD FAITH AND OWE BISHOP STEPHENS A SINCERE APOLOGY.
The man of God, the leader of Florida exposed Florida's finances in good faith and had it slapped in his face. THAT WAS UNETHICAL. There was no reason for anyone to view those documents except for the ministers of Florida (our voting constituency). Actscelerate did not need to, or should have been allowed to, see those documents.
Financial disclosure does not give us the right to gossip about it.
In conclusion, I saw first hand what happens when the COG leadership "discloses" information. It becomes open information for ANY VIEWER, not even member, of Actscelerate to read.
LET'S TALK ABOUT A VIOLATION OF THE MINUTES. Actscelerate is not the "voting constituency" of the General Assembly. When we post this information online, we violate the SAME MINUTES that we ACCUSE THE COG LEADERSHIP OF VIOLATING.
Double standard. So I'm wholeheartedly for the Privacy Agreement. This board has witnessed this first hand. Hopefully, Bishop will make all of us sign one in Florida at the next minister's meeting. That'll take care of this, because THEN IT WILL BE ILLEGAL.
SO I SAY...KEEP THE PRIVACY AGREEMENT AT THE HEADQUARTERS...I LIKE IT AND WE NEED IT.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 10:02 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Lord Chancellor wrote: | | Josh, have you ever even seen a Minutes book? |
Yes, I've read it quite a bit. Like everything else, it seems to be a matter of interpretation.
LC...I have a valid point, especially about the voting constituency...you may want to consider it.
I chose not to speak to something that occurred before I became a minister. I became a licensed minster in 2005, so I don't think it is wise for me to discuss something from 2000 or 2006.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 10:11 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Joshua Henson wrote: | | Lord Chancellor wrote: | | Josh, have you ever even seen a Minutes book? |
Yes, I've read it quite a bit. Like everything else, it seems to be a matter of interpretation.
LC...I have a valid point, especially about the voting constituency...you may want to consider it.
I chose not to speak to something that occurred before I became a minister. I became a licensed minster in 2005, so I don't think it is wise for me to discuss something from 2000 or 2006. |
What is the violation exactly? I still can't figure that one out. Is it the Privacy Agreement? Is it the missing section? Is it ECFA?
If it is about something that happened in 2000, I've got great advice; "Get over it!" respectfully, of course.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 10:14 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Lord Chancellor wrote: | | Joshua Henson wrote: |
What is the violation exactly? I still can't figure that one out. Is it the Privacy Agreement? Is it the missing section? Is it ECFA?
If it is about something that happened in 2000, I've got great advice; "Get over it!" respectfully, of course. |
The Minutes state:
| Quote: | S9. SECRETARY GENERAL
II. Duties and Authorities
The Secretary General shall
4. Have an audit of financial records and furnish the International General Assembly a statement of all receipts and disbursements, assets and liabilities, such statements to be prepared by a certified public accountant annually. |
The highest governing body of our denomination has required that a statement of all receipts and disbursements be furnished to the International General Assembly. It does not say that that the statement should be furnished to only the Ordained Bishops. The mandate is clear and explicit. The International General Assembly- or as defined by the Minutes- all members of the Church of God ages 16 and up.
The violation comes when you limit the information to only Ordained Bishops or only ministers in general. The violation also comes when the Secretary General refuses to furnish the statement in the first place.
The highest governing body of our denomination also made no provision for placing any restriction on the release of the statement (a confidentiality agreement). It simply stated that it shall be furnished. Period. |
Well, here's were you're incorrect. The GA on convenes once very two years. The Privacy Agreement is used when an individual ordained bishop desires to seek the records personally. It has nothing to do with the GA. And, I'm pretty sure that the General Assembly is also registered delegates; money paying registered delegates not every member under the age of 16. If this were the case, no one should have to pay to register.
I don't see where the COG is in violation here. What are you wanting to know? How much they spent on toilet paper? It gets kind of crazy in my opinion.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 10:41 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: I take the challenge |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Joshua Henson wrote: |
THE REAL ISSUE I SEE HERE...
I've got a beef. I've had this beef since the Florida minister's meeting, so I'm getting it off my chest, because it is related to the Privacy Agreement.
My problem with this stems from the Florida Ministers meeting in 2010.
..............
The man of God, the leader of Florida exposed Florida's finances in good faith and had it slapped in his face. THAT WAS UNETHICAL. There was no reason for anyone to view those documents except for the ministers of Florida (our voting constituency). Actscelerate did not need to, or should have been allowed to, see those documents.
Financial disclosure does not give us the right to gossip about it.
In conclusion, I saw first hand what happens when the COG leadership "discloses" information. It becomes open information for ANY VIEWER, not even member, of Actscelerate to read.
LET'S TALK ABOUT A VIOLATION OF THE MINUTES. Actscelerate is not the "voting constituency" of the General Assembly. When we post this information online, we violate the SAME MINUTES that we ACCUSE THE COG LEADERSHIP OF VIOLATING.
Double standard. So I'm wholeheartedly for the Privacy Agreement. This board has witnessed this first hand. Hopefully, Bishop will make all of us sign one in Florida at the next minister's meeting. That'll take care of this, because THEN IT WILL BE ILLEGAL.
SO I SAY...KEEP THE PRIVACY AGREEMENT AT THE HEADQUARTERS...I LIKE IT AND WE NEED IT. |
Putting aside whether the person posting Florida's information was ethically challenged or not....
What earth shaking problem occurred by disclosing the Florida financial information on Acts?
Answer: Nothing
But now every COG member that cared could understand the dire circumstances that Florida COG faced - and could better understand the decisions being made.
It was a good thing (from that perspective) imho.
I wasn't there to know what the overseer said (wasn't invited) but I do know I appreciated the information.
And (SURPRISE!) the world did not stop turning because of it.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16633
8/13/11 11:20 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: I take the challenge |
Joshua Henson |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Joshua Henson wrote: |
THE REAL ISSUE I SEE HERE...
I've got a beef. I've had this beef since the Florida minister's meeting, so I'm getting it off my chest, because it is related to the Privacy Agreement.
My problem with this stems from the Florida Ministers meeting in 2010.
..............
The man of God, the leader of Florida exposed Florida's finances in good faith and had it slapped in his face. THAT WAS UNETHICAL. There was no reason for anyone to view those documents except for the ministers of Florida (our voting constituency). Actscelerate did not need to, or should have been allowed to, see those documents.
Financial disclosure does not give us the right to gossip about it.
In conclusion, I saw first hand what happens when the COG leadership "discloses" information. It becomes open information for ANY VIEWER, not even member, of Actscelerate to read.
LET'S TALK ABOUT A VIOLATION OF THE MINUTES. Actscelerate is not the "voting constituency" of the General Assembly. When we post this information online, we violate the SAME MINUTES that we ACCUSE THE COG LEADERSHIP OF VIOLATING.
Double standard. So I'm wholeheartedly for the Privacy Agreement. This board has witnessed this first hand. Hopefully, Bishop will make all of us sign one in Florida at the next minister's meeting. That'll take care of this, because THEN IT WILL BE ILLEGAL.
SO I SAY...KEEP THE PRIVACY AGREEMENT AT THE HEADQUARTERS...I LIKE IT AND WE NEED IT. |
Putting aside whether the person posting Florida's information was ethically challenged or not....
What earth shaking problem occurred by disclosing the Florida financial information on Acts?
Answer: Nothing
But now every COG member that cared could understand the dire circumstances that Florida COG faced - and could better understand the decisions being made.
It was a good thing (from that perspective) imho.
I wasn't there to know what the overseer said (wasn't invited) but I do know I appreciated the information.
And (SURPRISE!) the world did not stop turning because of it. |
The problem was that it was WRONG. It doesn't matter if it turned the world upside. The ends do not justify the means. No harm no foul is not a good answer here.
It was wrong. We had information about the finances of Florida distributed in a manner that went against the good faith of Bishop Stephens and in a manner that anyone even outside of the Church of God could see it.
There is an issue here. This is a double standard. God bless the A/G, but I don't think they need to look at our records. Period. I do believe they're not apart of the GA.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 12:01 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
Joshua - if someone can find that thread - I don't believe it was as cut and dried as you are making it out to be.
I'd like to see the numbers again myself. 
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16633
8/13/11 12:09 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Lord Chancellor wrote: | | Joshua Henson wrote: | | Lord Chancellor wrote: | | Joshua Henson wrote: |
What is the violation exactly? I still can't figure that one out. Is it the Privacy Agreement? Is it the missing section? Is it ECFA?
If it is about something that happened in 2000, I've got great advice; "Get over it!" respectfully, of course. |
The Minutes state:
| Quote: | S9. SECRETARY GENERAL
II. Duties and Authorities
The Secretary General shall
4. Have an audit of financial records and furnish the International General Assembly a statement of all receipts and disbursements, assets and liabilities, such statements to be prepared by a certified public accountant annually. |
The highest governing body of our denomination has required that a statement of all receipts and disbursements be furnished to the International General Assembly. It does not say that that the statement should be furnished to only the Ordained Bishops. The mandate is clear and explicit. The International General Assembly- or as defined by the Minutes- all members of the Church of God ages 16 and up.
The violation comes when you limit the information to only Ordained Bishops or only ministers in general. The violation also comes when the Secretary General refuses to furnish the statement in the first place.
The highest governing body of our denomination also made no provision for placing any restriction on the release of the statement (a confidentiality agreement). It simply stated that it shall be furnished. Period. |
Well, here's were you're incorrect. The GA on convenes once very two years. The Privacy Agreement is used when an individual ordained bishop desires to seek the records personally. It has nothing to do with the GA. And, I'm pretty sure that the General Assembly is also registered delegates; money paying registered delegates not every member under the age of 16. If this were the case, no one should have to pay to register.
I don't see where the COG is in violation here. What are you wanting to know? How much they spent on toilet paper? It gets kind of crazy in my opinion. |
No error, here.
According to the Minutes, the International General Assembly is all members of the Church of God ages 16 and above.
| Quote: | ARTICLE VI
Governing Bodies
1. INTERNATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY
Members
The International General Assembly is composed of all members and ministers of the Church of God 16 years of age and above. |
According to the Minutes, all registered delegates at the biennial meeting of the General Assembly shall comprise its voting constituency.
Where S9 uses the phrase "the International General Assembly," it is, by definition, referring to all members of the Church of God ages 16 and up.
The SG shall furnish a statement of all receipts and disbursements to the International General Assembly- all members and ministers of the Church of God ages 16 and up.
That has not been done and is not being done. That is a violation. Limiting the statement to only Ordained Bishops is also a violation of the requirements issued by our highest governing body. |
Okay LC. I admit it. I was wrong in my interpretation of GA. Can you believe it? I admitted I was in error. That's doesn't happen often on this site. I do, however, believe the intent of the minutes was for it to be available at GA and printed in the minutes.
Question: What do you want them to do? Do you want them to post full disclosure on the website? What is YOUR solution to this supposed problem?
Another question: According to what you've posted, it can be a summary of the receipts and disbursements? Since I'm ignorant I need your wise counsel. Where does it say that it needs to be some line-item statement?
Another question: Isn't a summary of this info already in the back of the minutes? I don't have mine with me, it's in my office, but the last time I checked it had a whole bunch of financial stuff in there?
I'm just wondering what you guys actually are looking for? What is full disclosure? Are you wanting to know how much the headquarters spent on toilet paper in 2011-2012? What?
Instead of talking about the problems...What is the solution? What do you want from the EC?
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com
Last edited by Joshua Henson on 8/13/11 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 12:12 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Joshua - if someone can find that thread - I don't believe it was as cut and dried as you are making it out to be.
I'd like to see the numbers again myself. |
It was cut and dry. Bishop asked us not to post it on a discussion forum and someone did anyway. That's pretty cut and dry.
I don't care what everyone's excuses were, but it was wrong. When your leader, your pastor is trying to make an effort, a ground-breaking effort, to be transparent, you owe it to him to work with him.
Florida failed Bishop Stephens, and I have a feeling that the COG would fail our leadership as well. It's a spiritual problem. It's an integrity problem. I have covenanted with the COG, and God for that matter, to be under subjection to my spiritual leaders. Bishop is my pastor. I honor him as my pastor.
Question: If you were having a pastor's council session in which you asked the members to keep the information in confidence, how would you feel if the members of the PC went and published it, not only to the church but anyone one who had access to read it?
I'd be ticked off. I'm ticked off for Bishop Stephens. I've never asked him how he felt about it, but I'm still upset about it.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 12:21 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
Josh,
I don't know. I wasn't there. I don't know the context. So I will grant you you are more knowledgeable there.
The financial info was published for Florida (wrongly - by your testimony) - but yet it turned out to be no big deal. The Florida info did show some questionable expenditures by the previous administration - that if the pastors of the state had known about in advance - would have caused some calls to the state office - and hopefully put a stop to it. But all in all - it was not a earthquake.
But the disclosure of Gen HQ numbers has no such qualification.
It is supposed to be made available as delineated by the minutes - voted on by the GA.
My point being - why are we breaking our published requirements?
Why do we not follow our minutes and GA - why is that the accepted pattern and practice in the COG?
Why are so few man enough to simply ask that we walk our talk?
Why do we blatantly disregard the minutes? Is the info that damaging?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16633
8/13/11 12:41 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Josh,
I don't know. I wasn't there. I don't know the context. So I will grant you you are more knowledgeable there.
The financial info was published for Florida (wrongly - by your testimony) - but yet it turned out to be no big deal. The Florida info did show some questionable expenditures by the previous administration - that if the pastors of the state had known about in advance - would have caused some calls to the state office - and hopefully put a stop to it. But all in all - it was not a earthquake.
But the disclosure of Gen HQ numbers has no such qualification.
It is supposed to be made available as delineated by the minutes - voted on by the GA.
My point being - why are we breaking our published requirements?
Why do we not follow our minutes and GA - why is that the accepted pattern and practice in the COG?
Why are so few man enough to simply ask that we walk our talk?
Why do we blatantly disregard the minutes? Is the info that damaging? |
Let's go back to the original discussion...Tom was granted access if he would sign a privacy agreement which he was unwilling to do.
No where does the minutes say "how" they are supposed to disseminate the information.
The issue in Florida shows the exact reason for the privacy statement. Period.
I honestly believe that the COG leadership is in full compliance to the minutes. If you want the info, sign the paper.
I have no problem with the COG telling me that they will show you everything as long as you agree not to discuss it with others. If others want it, they can sign the paper too.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com
Last edited by Joshua Henson on 8/13/11 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 1:04 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Lord Chancellor wrote: | | Joshua Henson wrote: |
I honestly believe that the COG leadership is in full compliance to the minutes. If you want the info, sign the paper.
|
Then you 1.) haven't been paying attention and 2.) don't know what the Minutes state.
1. Tom has already stated that the information you will receive when you sign the confidentiality agreement is not the information required to be released. He knows this because
a.) He knows people who have signed the confidentiality agreement and received the information and it was not the information required to be released.
b.) He specifically asked Julian Robinson if he could receive the required information if he signed a confidentiality agreement. Julian Robinson responded that he could not.
2. The Minutes state that the Secretary General SHALL FURNISH a statement of all receipts and disbursements to the International General Assembly. The International General Assembly mandated this release of information and made ABSOLUTELY NO PROVISION for a limitation or stipulation that only those who sign a confidentiality agreement could receive the information. They said it shall be furnished to the members. Period. |
Since I haven't been paying attention and do not the know the minutes. I beg of thee LC please bestow upon me your wealth of wisdom and knowledge.
So you're saying that if the Minutes do not specifically make a provision for something, then it should not be allowed? So there's no wiggle room for anyone to make judgement decisions; whether administration, pastors or members? No wiggle room. No flexibility. If it does not say it, you can't do it.
Is this true in every aspect of the minutes and church function or just in the finances?
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 1:41 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Joshua Henson wrote: |
The issue in Florida shows the exact reason for the privacy statement. Period.
|
You are very wrong here.
The privacy statement was required at HQ (and not by the minutes) long before the Florida information was published.
You will need to retract - because it simply isn't true - per the timeline of ACTUAL events.
Sorry.
And as for the Florida information being published - I for one believe our State Overseer to be extremely shrewd and honest. He wanted that information out there. He knew there were less than honorable, double minded members working as pastors in Florida - and knew they would not heed his request. Yet he proceeded anyway - because that information in the hands of the state of Florida members was of value to them - and to him.
That is also why the GA wants the information made available - it is of value to members of the COG - yet it is thwarted by the HQ staff - who do not want it published.
josh - you have been really hard on the ministers that published the Florida financial info - and of Acts in particular for allowing the info to stay up - AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE STATE OVERSEER.
I just wish you had the same indignation for HQ staff that thwart the wishes of the GA - that the financial receipts and disbursements be made available to ALL members of the GA (not just ordained ministers).
Where is equal time? Where is the equal indignation? Where is the equal self righteousness? I don't see it. Sounds pretty double minded to me.
very sad. 
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16633
8/13/11 2:31 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Joshua Henson wrote: |
The issue in Florida shows the exact reason for the privacy statement. Period.
|
You are very wrong here.
The privacy statement was required at HQ (and not by the minutes) long before the Florida information was published.
You will need to retract - because it simply isn't true - per the timeline of ACTUAL events.
Sorry.
And as for the Florida information being published - I for one believe our State Overseer to be extremely shrewd and honest. He wanted that information out there. He knew there were less than honorable, double minded members working as pastors in Florida - and knew they would not heed his request. Yet he proceeded anyway - because that information in the hands of the state of Florida members was of value to them - and to him.
That is also why the GA wants the information made available - it is of value to members of the COG - yet it is thwarted by the HQ staff - who do not want it published.
josh - you have been really hard on the ministers that published the Florida financial info - and of Acts in particular for allowing the info to stay up - AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE STATE OVERSEER.
I just wish you had the same indignation for HQ staff that thwart the wishes of the GA - that the financial receipts and disbursements be made available to ALL members of the GA (not just ordained ministers).
Where is equal time? Where is the equal indignation? Where is the equal self righteousness? I don't see it. Sounds pretty double minded to me.
very sad. |
You need to reread the quote...the issue is the reason not the event...NBF...the issue is that there are people who will disclose this information to parties who are not supposed to read it and use it for GOSSIP rather than being informed. "The issue (not the event) in Florida is the exact reason for the privacy statement."
I'm not retracting. I am hard on those who published the information, because I know for a fact that it was unethical. I do not know for a fact that the COG HQ is being unethical.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 2:42 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Travis Johnson |
If everything is on the up and up, there is no need to fear disclosure If things aren't, we need to disclose so that people who are not functioning with integrity or who are functioning out of historical ignorance...which has been the case for most of us (I can't tell you how many people simply don't know...including myself until I accidentally found out about the mistakes with the EHM and property sales), can stop the madness.
Our failure to squarely confront our mistakes, most likely honest mistakes in oversight developed over decades and decades, results in a defunding of mission.
That's why disclosure is important to me. Let's strip our stuff out from the darkness, bring it into the light, and reappropriate our resources to mission as much as we can.
Pretending there is no problem isn't a leader's solution. Excuses, blame-shifting, and delay is a political route unbecoming the fellowship of His mission.
We can do better. And we have good leaders in place who are legitimately trying to deal with it...and some who aren't. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
8/13/11 2:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| What good thing does the denomination gain (or does HQ gain) by keeping such things secret? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12804
8/13/11 2:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Bro Bob |
I'm going to resist weighing in on topic. I have enjoyed reading this thread, though, and the post on page 3 from LC in response to Bro Randy is one of the most encouraging things I have ever read on actscelerate.
I do need to clear up the post on page 1 regarding me making any request whatever of Cleveland, other than my steady request that men be chosen who will keep their word and honor promises made to, and instructions received from the governing body of the Church of God, the General Assembly. I have never sought the promised documents, and would prefer to not know about things I cannot affect.
BB |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
8/13/11 3:30 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Joshua Henson |
| Lord Chancellor wrote: | It's amazing what people will defend out of hopes of endearing themselves to those in position to do good things for them.
I, personally, do not whore myself, my convictions, nor truth, for anyone nor for any thing that they can give me. It's just not how I roll.
To each their own, I guess. |
LC...you seriously have a problem understanding that people can be just as passionately convicted about something that you don't agree with.
I'm not whoring anything. What I've written is what I feel sincerely. God placed me in the Church of God. I love the Church of God. I fully believe that I have a biblical responsibility to support my spiritual leadership. I sincerely love and appreciate our leadership. I believe that God gave them to this organization.
I, personally, do not whore myself, my convictions, nor truth, for your approval.
Before you're so quick to judge, you may want to consider that I have honest reasons for what I believe.
I have spiritual reasons. I spent the first four years of my credentialed ministry in Florida during the worst financial climate possible. I'm not a preacher's kid. I don't have the COG legacy that others have. It was my dream to follow my grandfather's steps and one day become a COG minister. He told me that he left the COG, but God brought him back to this movement later in his ministry and he instilled in me a love for this Church.
I came in with high hopes and I was naive. I thought preacher's were spiritual until I sat in my first minister's meeting. I was appalled. After four years of politics and fighting I just knew that I wanted out of the COG.
But God intervened and led me on one of the greatest spiritual experiences of my life: a three-month study on Spiritual Maturity in the Book of Titus.
This study concluded in a change of heart regarding leadership. I make a choice to defend our leadership because of a spiritual change that occurred in my life.
You can make all the jokes you want, but I'm as sincere as anyone about my support of COG leadership.
_________________
Joshua Henson
Senior Pastor at Pensacola Worship Center
www.pwccog.com
www.ecclesialleadership.com |
Friendly Face
Posts: 379
8/13/11 3:58 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Nature Boy Florida |
Sorry Josh - my church, right or wrong - while noble - is the sign of an immature person.
Nathan told David "Thou art the man".
We need some holy Nathan's to show the better way to leadership - with the right spirit, of course, as Nathan had.
"Yes-man-ism" got us in the mess we are in. It won't help us get out of it. We need men - in leadership or not - that will lead the way to walking our talk. If our words, our creeds, aren't worth the paper they are written on - we need to tear them up and quit pretending they do mean something.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16633
8/13/11 5:16 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
