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| Is homosexuality immoral? |
| Yes |
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| No |
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| Total Votes : 93 |
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TheoloJohn |
If what you mean by "homosexuality" is homosexual acts, then yes, homosexual acts are inherently immoral and sinful according to the Bible.
If on the other hand you mean "same-sex attraction" (as in "homosexual orientation" ), then that would entirely depend on whether the person with such desires yields to them, just like having a sex drive is not sinful until one yields in their mind and will to the temptation to have sex with someone they are not married to.
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"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006
Last edited by TheoloJohn on 3/17/07 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
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3/17/07 10:36 pm
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| TheoloJohn |
fire-starter |
| Having tendencies there buddy? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1947
3/17/07 10:40 pm
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| Re: TheoloJohn |
TheoloJohn |
| fire-starter wrote: | | Having tendencies there buddy? |
(Chuckle)
No, not in the least.
However, I have been privileged to minister to (formerly practicing) homosexuals in the past, and while God can certainly work an instantaneous miracle, most of them seemed to have a lot of difficulty in struggling against their old ingrained thought patterns and desires. And the way some Christians would have them believe, they're not even saved at all if they're still struggling with homosexual desires of any kind. To me that idea clearly confuses temptation and actual sin.
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"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006 |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
3/17/07 10:45 pm
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Layperson |
| TheoloJohn wrote: | If what you mean by "homosexuality" is homosexual acts, then yes, homosexual acts are inherently immoral and sinful according to the Bible.
If on the other hand you mean "same-sex attraction" (as in "homosexual orientation" ), then that would entirely depend on whether the person with such desires yields to them, just like having a sex drive is not sinful until one yields in their mind and will to the temptation to have sex with someone they are not married to. |
You are well respected on this board as to being good in theology and articulating your views. So, what would you think it means, in light of the furor surrounding Gen Pace, to ask the question "is homosexuality immoral? " Without a paragraph or two to cover all the hair splitting answers we get, what would you think it means? If, being as intelligent as you are, you don't understand the question, perhaps we should ask Rabbi to elaborate. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/18/07 2:16 pm
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| amazing |
nugeme |
| Look at how quickly the muddling began. This poll would have been laughable in any other time because it would have been a given. See why the American church is in trouble? Our humanistic and morally relativistic educational system has produced this type of confusion - and the church has not countered it very well. We do not think Christianly. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 918
3/18/07 3:49 pm
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| Re: amazing |
Layperson |
| nugeme wrote: | | Look at how quickly the muddling began. This poll would have been laughable in any other time because it would have been a given. See why the American church is in trouble? Our humanistic and morally relativistic educational system has produced this type of confusion - and the church has not countered it very well. We do not think Christianly. |
My point exactly. Why would any Christian have to think twice about this?
I hope they are doing this just to stimulate debate and not because of their personal convictions. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/18/07 8:58 pm
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| Who is making this difficult but you two yappers..... |
caseyleejones |
I looked up immoral in the bible....couldnt find it. I looked up moral....couldnt find it. I looked up immorality....couldnt find it.
However, I did find the term sin associated with same sex stuff.
I am using the bible to judge. You two.....are using your own made up definitions and then rag on everybody because they do not agree with you and your definitions.
Give me a break. You two are the epitome of defining christianity in terms of your own beliefs and definitions.
At least use the bible next time......it seems that most others have in this thread. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11798
3/18/07 9:17 pm
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| Re: Who is making this difficult but you two yappers..... |
Layperson |
| caseyleejones wrote: | I looked up immoral in the bible....couldnt find it. I looked up moral....couldnt find it. I looked up immorality....couldnt find it.
However, I did find the term sin associated with same sex stuff.
I am using the bible to judge. You two.....are using your own made up definitions and then rag on everybody because they do not agree with you and your definitions.
Give me a break. You two are the epitome of defining Christianity in terms of your own beliefs and definitions.
At least use the bible next time......it seems that most others have in this thread. |
Casey, I have seen you present a lot of arguments in this forum, but I must say this is the most lame one you have ever presented. So, what if the word is not in the Bible. Did you find pedophile in the Bible? How about cancer? Do you deny it exists just because that word is not in the Bible? If you don't want to answer the questionnaire, then don't. The 43 people that answered it seemed to understand. Why is this so difficult. I would think anyone would know the intent of this question.
The whole nation is in an uproar about what Gen Pace said. We as Christians should be supportive of him, and here we are arguing about what "homosexuality" and "immoral" means. It is no wonder that the unbeliever can't get it right.
I wanted to start this thread and Rabbi volunteered to set it up as a poll. I did it just for this reason...to see if we as Christians were solid in our beliefs about this sensitive subject. Apparently we are not. All those who voted are, except the one who did it as a joke I suppose. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/18/07 10:26 pm
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| Homosexuality is immoral, |
coastalcracker |
But what does that have to do with anything? Gluttony is immoral and I know an awful lot of fat preachers. Lust is immoral and we have church members in second and third marriages. The world is full of immorality, that is why we are called to be in the world, not of the world.
The fact that there is immorality in the world does not speak poorly of the church, we are never going to wipe the immorality and sin until the Lord returns. Should we constantly be ministering to the lost? Absolutely!
You can blame the public schools and the liberals all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the world has never been a friendly place to true Christianity. Even the Christian societies that we keep referring to when we talk about the heritage of our country were flawed. In Europe, the Christian tradition included papal rule that was political rather than spiritual. In the 1920's in America, hedonism abounded.
You long for the good old days when society was more moral. It didn't exist. People were just less likely to find out about the sin. You didn't have to worry about the internet or 125 cable channels spreading the word about all the sin and immorality. Church people are just as guilty as the rest; a nice juicy scandal makes for great entertainment.
Someone said in another post that homosexuality is different because it is a perversion. All sin is a perversion. Ever since the fall in the Garden of Eden, humans have perverted God's perfect will for us.
So now we have determined that homosexuality is immoral. The true question is how do we get homosexuals into heaven? Why jump all over someone for pointing out that there may be a homosexual that has sought the Lord, asked forgiveness for his acts and now must battle the temptations of the flesh every day in his walk for the Lord. How is this different from a straight man that lusts after women? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 926
3/18/07 10:57 pm
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| just a note... |
Grandpa Cleland |
there are other things that aren't mentioned in the bible...
Rapture
Demons...
Trinity
just thought I would throw those in the ring. We believe in those, but those words aren't in the Bible...
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Acts-celerater
Posts: 627
3/18/07 11:25 pm
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| I voted no... |
GentleOne |
before reading the thread, and after reading responses, I think I should I have voted 'yes' because of context.
Here's my rationale:
The discussion has focused upon whether or not homosexuality is a sin... yada yada... same junk, different day.
I thought that we might be looking at the word "immoral" in it's socially constructed context, since it is a socially constructed term.
In that way, no, homosexuality is not immoral. In the context of our society, two men or two women in a committed, monogamous relationship shouldn't repulse people badly.
BUT (big butt), I believe that the question that's really being posed in this thread (and every other thread on homosexuality) is whether or not homosexuality is HOLY.
Holy living and moral living are different things. I can live a moral life and love everyone and be a good person, but that doesn't make me holy. Only God can do that, and that leaves us asking,
"Can God sanctify (make holy) a person who is homosexual?"
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(Please be "gentle.")  |
Friendly Face
Posts: 273
3/18/07 11:38 pm
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TheoloJohn |
| Layperson wrote: | | TheoloJohn wrote: | If what you mean by "homosexuality" is homosexual acts, then yes, homosexual acts are inherently immoral and sinful according to the Bible.
If on the other hand you mean "same-sex attraction" (as in "homosexual orientation" ), then that would entirely depend on whether the person with such desires yields to them, just like having a sex drive is not sinful until one yields in their mind and will to the temptation to have sex with someone they are not married to. |
You are well respected on this board as to being good in theology and articulating your views. So, what would you think it means, in light of the furor surrounding Gen Pace, to ask the question "is homosexuality immoral? " Without a paragraph or two to cover all the hair splitting answers we get, what would you think it means? If, being as intelligent as you are, you don't understand the question, perhaps we should ask Rabbi to elaborate. |
I believe homosexual acts are immoral, depraved, wicked, sinful. This is what the Scripture plainly teaches in both testaments.
The reason I answer as I have is basically twofold:
1. The Bible does not recognize the concept of "homosexuality" in the sense of "homosexual orientation" which is prevalent in our modern psychologically based understanding. What the Bible does recognize and condemn are homosexual acts, and these acts are most certainly sinful, depraved, wicked, against nature, and so forth.
2. Many people who have bought into the modern (erroneous) concept of "homosexual orientation" (or "I'm gay" as opposed to "I am a sodomite," which is what the Bible calls men who engage in homosex acts) mistakenly conclude that just because the may experience homosexual desires, then it necessarily follows that they therefore are gay.
In ministering to people who were doing their best to come out from among the homosex lifestyle, one thing I have seen that they almost all struggle with is the abject condemnation they feel just for having homosexual thoughts, desires, and temptation, which old thought patterns are to be expected whenever anyone is coming out of any particular addictive and self-destructive sinful activity such as homosexual activity.
In other words, it's no sin to be tempted. If to be tempted is the same thing as to commit actual sin, then Jesus himself was a sinner when He was tempted to sin by the Devil.
John
_________________
"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006 |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
3/18/07 11:40 pm
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| I know this subject seems to be the old proverbial dead |
Layperson |
horse thing but in my opinion it is one of the most important issues in society and in Christian culture today. The reason that I say that is there is a sweeping revolution in this country to indoctrinate everyone of its acceptance. Many TV shows, movies, etc. promote its acceptance. Churches are in a struggle with gay ministers that want to retain their right to stay in the pulpit. Many churches and individual Christians who are not well versed in the Bible are on the edge. Many Christians are hoodwinked on the genetic thing. That is the reason for this poll in a community of Bible believing Christians.
The most alarming thing is the acceptance being taught our children in the public schools and colleges. They are being brain washed and we have to try to undo what they hear at school.
This is not about condemning them to hell...we are all condemned unless we accept Christ and repent of our sins (all of them). This is about whether it is moral or immoral...and we don't need to interject other sins like gluttony, etc. let's deal with the issue of homosexuality. Was General Pace right or wrong? Not whether homosexuals have a right to serve in the military, but whether homosexuality is moral or immoral. Not such a hard question in my opinion. You may think of it this way...is it right or wrong?...
Does anyone dare deny that it is a cancer that is invading all walks of life in the this country and worldwide? And does anyone deny that it is gaining acceptance more everyday? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/19/07 8:27 am
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| Re: Homosexuality is immoral, |
Holzman |
| coastalcracker wrote: | But what does that have to do with anything? Gluttony is immoral and I know an awful lot of fat preachers. Lust is immoral and we have church members in second and third marriages. The world is full of immorality, that is why we are called to be in the world, not of the world.
The fact that there is immorality in the world does not speak poorly of the church, we are never going to wipe the immorality and sin until the Lord returns. Should we constantly be ministering to the lost? Absolutely!
You can blame the public schools and the liberals all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the world has never been a friendly place to true Christianity. Even the Christian societies that we keep referring to when we talk about the heritage of our country were flawed. In Europe, the Christian tradition included papal rule that was political rather than spiritual. In the 1920's in America, hedonism abounded.
You long for the good old days when society was more moral. It didn't exist. People were just less likely to find out about the sin. You didn't have to worry about the internet or 125 cable channels spreading the word about all the sin and immorality. Church people are just as guilty as the rest; a nice juicy scandal makes for great entertainment.
Someone said in another post that homosexuality is different because it is a perversion. All sin is a perversion. Ever since the fall in the Garden of Eden, humans have perverted God's perfect will for us.
So now we have determined that homosexuality is immoral. The true question is how do we get homosexuals into heaven? Why jump all over someone for pointing out that there may be a homosexual that has sought the Lord, asked forgiveness for his acts and now must battle the temptations of the flesh every day in his walk for the Lord. How is this different from a straight man that lusts after women? |
great post cracker
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We are who God made us to be |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 694
3/19/07 10:55 am
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Layperson |
| Holzman wrote: | | homosexuality is a sin, just like a lie is a sin, just like any type of sex before marriage is a sin. Is it a worse sin than all other sins? I would have to say, no! Does God hate homosexuality? Yes! Does God hate sin? Yes! Are the homosexuals worse than any other sinner? I dont think so. |
In the Old Testament what are the sins that God demanded that the guilty parties be executed? I'll give you a clue...it was not the lie.. What sin did he specifically call an abomination? I agree that God hates all sin...and I agree that God loves all sinners but to say that homosexuality is no worse sin than a lie...I don't think so.
If nothing else, think of the consequences on society, such as Aids, the destruction of young people, etc. Someone objected to it being called a perversion...Sex with another person of the same gender at one time was considered a perversion...(now it may not be, considering the way some respond). sex between an adult and a child is a perversion...sex between a human and an animal is a perversion...anyone want to take issue with that? How long will it be that our conscience becomes so corrupt that they will no longer be considered as such?
So much for that...I am shocked that we have Acts members who protest this thread... |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1747
3/19/07 12:04 pm
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| Absolutely |
doyle |
Sinful enough to send someone to hell.
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The largest room in the world is the room for improvement. |
Acts-celerate Owner
Posts: 6957
3/19/07 12:19 pm
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| Re: Immorality |
Theodore Ballard |
If you want a complicated answer to a very simple question, ask it on ACTS!
Theodore Ballard
Merritt Island, Fl |
Friendly Face
Posts: 440
3/19/07 1:43 pm
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| Abominations |
coastalcracker |
I don't see anyone protesting this thread, but don't conduct a poll and not expect discussion. I guess you could say I was protesting the way people focus on homosexuality as the source of all our troubles. If we could just get rid of the gay issue, our job as Christians would be so much easier? Layperson, you seem to think that homosexuality has a special place among sins, well it isn't as unique as you make it out to be.
Here are some other sins that are abominations.
Acting unjustly in transactions with weights and measures.
(Deut. 25) 15But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 16For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Crossdressing
(Deut. 22:5)The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
Lying
| Quote: | | I'll give you a clue...it was not the lie |
(Proverbs 6):16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
A bunch of food based laws
( Lev. 11)
Re-marrying a wife you divorced
(Deut. 24:4)Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
there are others, but I guess you can look them up yourself
All sin has the consequence of people going to hell.
AIDS is spreading faster through heterosexual acts and drug use than through homosexuality.
Our young people are much more likely to be destroyed by drinking, drugs, and heterosexual pursuits.
| Quote: | | In the Old Testament what are the sins that God demanded that the guilty parties be executed |
Here's a link to a list of capital offenses, of which lying is included.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_capital_crimes_in_the_bible
So homosexuality has quite a bit of company on the list of sins that are bad.[/quote] |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 926
3/19/07 3:12 pm
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| What about this? |
Grandpa Cleland |
I did a study and found (6 years ago) that less than 6% of all practicing homosexuals ever get free and stay free from the bondage of homosexuality...
What is it about homosexuality that keeps such a grip on people...
Most liars, cheaters, and even adulterers don't take their own life trying to fight the homosexual lifestyle...
There is something much deeper about it... |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 627
3/19/07 3:41 pm
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TheoloJohn |
Again, the only thing the Bible condemns with regard to this issue are homosexual acts. "It is an abomination for a man to lie with a man as with a woman," etc.
The Bible does not recognize the modern psychological invention called "homosexuality" or "homosexual orientation."
A person fighting against homosexual desire and temptation would probably be considered "homosexual" and "homosexually oriented" in our day and age, but again, the terminology of "homosexual orientation" is simply not derived from the Bible.
That is why I don't think the question "Is homosexuality immoral?" is the as unambiguous as it seems. I've personally known of men who by God's grace came out of the "gay lifestyle" who still struggled to varying degrees with homosexual temptations and desires.
I would ask all those who are quick to answer yes or no to this question the following question: "Is a person who experiences homosexual desires and temptation, but refrains from homosexual acts, to be considered immoral?"
Surely the one striving to resist temptation is a far more to be commended (and by no means condemned) than the one who never has a struggle in this area.
_________________
"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the New York State Board of Elections. Poughkeepsie Journal, October 29, 2006 |
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2160
3/19/07 5:03 pm
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